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My current rules are that I’m gonna spend £10 a month on music (what I’d be paying Spotify) and try to buy directly from artists. I’ll allow myself listening to stuff on Youtube so I can gauge whether or not I wanna then go ahead and buy a song or an album if I’ve listened to it enough times and want it in my library.
So … it’s okay to listen to it for free on YouTube and maybe buy it directly, but not to pay a Spotify subscription and listen to it there (and also maybe buy it directly)? The whole rant about “Spotify doesn’t pay musicians very much” comes off as disingenuous.
The amazing mental gymnastics that these people go through to justify their piracy and inane behaviors.
Musician’s pay is just the excuse of the day for them to feel okay about what they’re doing. Honestly, if you are gonna pirate then just pirate, stop pretending that it’s for a good cause or higher purpose, other than to keep your own wallets stacked.
You could’ve replied to 100 comments on this thread about piracy but you replied to the one that had nothing to do with it.
Fai point, but regardless it seems to have struck a nerve with the piracy crowd.
I don’t have beef with piracy itself but I found it hilarious the number of pirates here standing on their soapboxes, pretending to be some kind of modern day Robin Hood and virtue signaling super hard.
Guys, you are still ripping off artists and content creators regardless of their deals with media company, just admit you want shit for free.
Probably pirated almost every artist I’ve subsequently bought from and go to shows average about once a month. Have professional musicians in the family and they work as studio musicians, composers for media, teaching, play in bands that do covers for corporate events, or as a backing band for a front person. That’s probably the majority of musicians unless you’re lucky enough to be in a band that gains any notoriety. Most bands are passion projects between musicians who have day jobs and might only play a few small gigs at local venues. So when we’re talking about piracy as if it’s the most significant thing impacting musicians, really it’s a small facet of a very difficult industry to work in.
I don’t really think piracy is the single most significant thing impacting musicians, my main point to the “Honorable” pirates is just to cut the shit and admit you rip people off because you want to, not because you are some incarnation of Captain Jack Sparrow out to serve justice while you loot and plunder.
Honestly? No, while I do still pirate, I am slowly buying all the music I can buy in form of vynils records and CDs, other than digital downloads from bandacamp.
Watching for free on YouTube is not piracy, and laughably, I’d say it is better than using Spotify that quite literally exploits artists for cents.
No, while I do still pirate, I am slowly buying all the music I can buy in form of vynils records and CDs, other than digital downloads from bandacamp.
Good on you, the act of buying is what makes the difference.
Watching for free on YouTube is not piracy, and laughably, I’d say it is better than using Spotify that quite literally exploits artists for cents.
My comment is in the wrong thread as the other commentor pointed out, it was directed at the Robin Hood wannabes who thinks somehow ripping off artists and creators is okay, because they have a shitty deal with distributors / media companies.
Jack Stratton of Vulfpeck was interviewed on CNBN about the Spotify IPO and gets around to making a good point about it here, “stop whining… me.” Artists don’t have to use a label and get paid in these “pitties” from Spotify, ultimately its a bizarre consumption model and likely unsustainable.
I use the “Lite” version of spotify that isn’t strictly available for download in the states. It still has real shuffle and isn’t as bogged down with bloat features. Literally the only downside is no sleep timer.
Spotify has always been a pain in the ass. For the longest time you couldn’t listen to a single song someone shared because they forced you to create an account.
Companies that force you to create an account to do the simplest action are assholes.
I don’t know why I feel like this is okay for Spotify to do but not YouTube.
My thinking is clearly flawed
Yup, either require an account to use the service, or don’t. Don’t do some weird middleground. It totally makes sense for saving playlists or whatever.
Companies that force you to create an account to do the simplest action are assholes.
OOT but Instagram does this and IT SUCKS
Worse, they don’t even show you properly like “Sign In to visit this account”, they just says the error message “Please try again”. I thought there was something wrong with my Firefox or adblockers… But, nope it’s like that in other browsers IIRC
Ugh, spotify soot again?
At least according to spotify (it would probably be illegal for them to lie anyways), Spotify pays almost 70% of revenue to rights-holders (whoever distributes the thing, e.g. record labels), which means they take about the same cut as Steam. Good luck complaining about that.
You often see people citing the $.003 per stream for rights-holders figure for Spotify. That’s not exactly what Spotify decides! Spotify pays rights-holders share of the 70% of the revenue based on how much they were streamed. TL;DR: Spotify pays rights-holders slices of pie based on how much their artists help bake. So, if artists aren’t getting payed enough, Spotify simply isn’t getting enough revenue despite reinventing radio for its free tier!
Not to mention how certain rights-holders (fortunately not DistroKid) gobble royalties away from artists. And, the author’s solution to (insert @Nougat’s comment here)?
(On a side note: I hate Tidal free, because it “doesn’t” have ads! Every single interruption I’ve encountered so far is the generic Tidal announcer telling me to subscribe to premium. Sometimes I even get a freaking video “ad” on cellular data telling me the same thing, and there are only 4 “ads” in total! There’s no variety! It’s just repeating! Aaaaaaaaa (dw just yelling me name
For what its worth (and its totally fine if you dont see it the same way) a free service that is promoting itself is a special type of advertisement and should be excluded from talking about ad supported content or when using just the phrase ads
That being said it is still equally disruptive but its not trying to schill you something you arent already committed to using and for free service thats an entirely fair way for them to try to get new subscribers and seems more like promotion than advertising
Agree to disagree but i do think its an important distinction when discussing ads
Hey all, I’d like to distance myself from Spotify, but I really enjoy their discovery features. I’ve learned about a lot of bands both new and old that I wouldn’t have otherwise. Do you have any suggestions for a service that could replace this aspect of it?
Search your favourite artists. Wiki them etc. and learn about them whilst simultaneously finding where they’re members play in other bands or have other projects. Also, it can illuminate what they’re influences were/are and you can listen to that too. I find a shit-tone of new music this way.
Deezer. Interface/UX is a little jank but it’s private and discovery is good.
Radio Paradiso. Berlin based radio. Weird and wonderful.
How about FM radio waves?
I discover more ads than music that way
So you can hear the same 5 songs on repeat interspersed with tons of commercials?
Radio fucking sucks, amigo. Literally the most homogeneous playlists ever unless you are close enough to a college radio station or a major city that can support anything other than top 40 or the same 100 classic rock songs.
Ah yeah I love hearing the same 30 songs over and over again with 60% ads, great idea
This is why I’ll never feel bad pirating any music found on the radio.
This seems to be the standard music streaming experience
Bandcamp is pretty good. They do writeups that I think are written by real people. When you look at a band you like, it tells you about stuff other people who like them have. I’ve found a lot of stuff there.
It is more about buying music than renting it, however. Most albums it will ask you to buy after a certain number of plays. I think the band can configure those details
Bandcamp was bought out by Epic Games, fired half of it’s staff to make the bottom line look better, and is now owned by some private corporate music licensing company that refuses to recognize it’s employee union and fired even more employees that were all involved in their unionization effort. I wouldn’t recommend supporting them anymore.
This all happened in September btw so any enshittification of the service has yet to come to fruition.
Not that it’s any better in terms of ethics or artist pay, but YouTube Music has relatively decent auto playlist generation with settings for discovery. Plus you get ad-free YouTube without having to use piped or vanced or whatever people are using these days.
Yeah I know it’s not a popular position these days but I have been a Google Music subscriber since the early days.
IMO YT Music doesn’t disappoint when it comes to finding what you’re looking for.
And not having to worry about fighting Google on ad-blockers with YT is a convenient add-on.
I’ve used Spotify, Apple music, YT music and nothing beats SoundCloud stations for discovering new music based on a song.
and their “More of What you Like” playlists are just stations based on your recently most played songs and they just don’t miss.
for someone like me that has songs from a lot of different genres in my regular rotation of 10-15 songs every month or so, it’s perfect for discovering music.
If you like modern rock, theres a free app (no ads or any bullshit either) or listen via website. Former radio DJ quit the industry and started his own online station. Im definately biased here as i used to listen to him all the time when i would drive all day long, but as its literally free and not supported by ads.
No account needed also
Anyways if you like modern rock whatwasthatradio.com
It is dedicated to only playing new music
He didnt like all the amazing music that exists to continue to go completely unnoticed by commercial radio so hes doing it himself
Hes supported by subscribers on patreon etc
If i remember correctly all songs are 36 months or newer
This is a proper SOCAN licensed service (canadian broadcasting license I think) so hes doing it proper.
I personally have found at least a dozen new artists to listen to because of this free service
heres some of the bands he has done interviews with to give you an idea.
I find last.fm’s “similar artists” feature more accurate that Spotify’s. But that’s just for finding new stuff and tracking your history. Not really for actually playing the music. I linked it to Spotify and use them both together
There’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time, used to love last.fm and pandora etc
I use Yandex Music for discovery. For some reason, I can’t get Spotify to recommend the same amount of new stuff I like. You might need a proxy though because the content there is region-locked. Also I used both Yandex and Spotify for free, it’s just fine on desktop with Ublock Origin.
Down voted cause substack allows nazi content.
That’s nice for you
Blocking because irrelevant comments are annoying
Upvoted because this article was an interesting read.
Last weekend I used https://github.com/linsomniac/spotify_to_ytmusic to copy my Spotify playlists over to YouTube Music, and the shuffle play is SOOO much nicer there! That was my primary gripe with Spotify, the shuffle play is idiotic
As far as I recall. YT Music pays even less than Spotify does unfortunately.
I believe YouTube music premium streams actually pay more than Spotify but the cross between YouTube paying way less and YouTube music paying more causes some confusion.
According to the soundcharts link below, they pay about half of spotify’s pay.
here’s a TL;DR summary for what we’ve got:
- Spotify paid the artists $0,0032 per stream
- Apple Music got the average rate of $0,0056
- Google Play Music landed a $0,0055 payout rate
- Deezer fell slightly lower at $0.00436
From https://soundcharts.com/blog/music-streaming-rates-payouts#streaming-payouts-on-spotify-apple-music-google-play-and-deezer which is admittedly a bit old.
You cannot make a difference this way. Their music is a commodity they have signed agreements to sell. They probably (in the vast majority of instances) had almost no bargaining power in this and a lot of signed artists don’t make a penny from their work, at all.
If you really like an artist, contact them via their official channels and ask if you can send them money directly or donate to a charity they like.
Yeah you’re right. Actually I was just thinking about this streaming space and perhaps switching away from Spotify, over to Tidal but probably it wouldn’t make a big difference to the respected artists I’m listening to.
This person really brags about paying $25 for a proprietary music player that’s exclusive to Mac OSX.
A while back I realized my phone has 256GB of internal storage and since I don’t take pictures or put anything else on it, I was running around with 256GB of free storage wherever I went.
And that’s pretty much when it clicked for me that I was paying Spotify for access to music I already have from the pre-spotify days for a convenience that no longer is valid.
I dove into my box of CD’s and DVDs and put the 30 something gigs of music I collected since the mid 90’s on my phone and haven’t used spotify since.
EDIT: and, yeah, I’ve re-instanced my music, movie and series downloaders and went back to sailing the high seas.
I switched to Netflix/Spotify, because of the convenience and timing of release they provided, they were also more reliable in terms of quality (“free” versions labeled ass 1080p often aren’t actually 1080p, etc).
But the sheer cost of Spotify, Paramount+, Disney+, Netflix, etc, etc, etc to listen to and watch what I want, has made the convenience/cost calculation move from being acceptable to being even more than what it used to be buying CD’s and DVD’s.
On top of that the audio and video quality have deteriorated over the years, availability has become spotty, at best (like certain services removing movies and shows, even some removing movies and shows you paid extra for), we’re also dealing with these services pushing ads on top of us already paying subscriptions and fragmenting their market to the extent everything has become entirely unaffordable.
I used to buy maybe 2-3 CD’s in a year and a boxset of a show and a movie once a year.
Now simply subscribing to every service that has something I want for just 1 month costs more than what I spent per year previously.
Gabe Newels words are still right on the money.
Piracy is a service problem and the service provided these days makes Piracy the better option, again.
I don’t stream either. All my music, I own. No one is taking it away.
And in 2024, Spotify will stop paying out songs which get less than 1000 streams in a year. Which means for me, as an artist in the early stages of my career, I am going to get paid nothing. I could get over 1000 streams on all my songs in total, but still get paid nothing. I could get 999 streams on a song one year and 999 streams on it the next year… and still get paid nothing.
As the author states in the previous paragraph, Spotify pays 0.003c per stream. I don’t think the author has done the maths. 1000 streams equals 3c. He’s complaining over not getting paid 3c as if that will fund his career
Your 3c (or $3, whatever) might not be much but they’re saving that across thousands and thousands of small artists so for them it’s another lucrative way of skimming the profits of the actual creators for themselves.
From what I read, it’s more about stopping people using auto generated songs and uploading thousands of songs
It’s not 0.003¢ per steam, it’s $0.003. (Actually £0.003, per that article.)
So 1000 streams should pay $3.
He’s complaining over
*she’s
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You (or your label who represents you) voluntarily put your music on spotify and can always pull your content if you want.
Equating this to theft makes zero sense. And your post is universally upvoted. Wtf?
Have you considered the power imbalance when you describe them as voluntarily putting it on Spotify? What are your views on “paying people in exposure” or unpaid internships?
I would be open to hearing an argument as to why Spotify should pay no matter what. I could get behind that.
However, if you voluntarily put your music on spotify, and can remove it any time you want, and you are claiming spotify is committing theft against you. . .well, that just doesn’t hold any water. I mean, you hold all the power in this case: it’s your music that you fully control.
What are your views on “paying people in exposure” or unpaid internships?
I can see both being beneficial, but most of the time lame. The latter is something that benefits the wealthy, so I think it should be discouraged. But if you voluntarily did either of these things and then tried to claim theft, I would meet it with the same argument.
I only used Spotify for podcasts when I used to be on the road all the time. For music, I’ve had a free Pandora account for years now. Does what I need it too. And with wireguard+pihole I don’t get ads either.
I only used Spotify for podcasts
This is funny because I remember the days people HATED Spotify for adding podcast and only listen to podcast on their own separated app (I use PocketCasts)
I like being able to queue an episode of something to listen to, and then going back to listening to music again. If it wasn’t for that, it’s kind of a crappy podcast player, yeah.
I can see that. Though it’s been a few years since I’ve used it.
Edit: The podcast id listen to were very long format/critical role episodes.
To be fair, nowadays several podcasts stopped issuing their feeds and can only be listened to on spotify because they bought exclusivity, it sucks.
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Last year I’ve listened to more than 6k different songs. If you’d be generous for the math and say 12 songs an album, 9 euro per album it’s still over 5k a year. Spotify is just cheaper for me, even the high seas would cost me too much in terms of time
I find it most useful as a radio replacement for this reason, you can’t find a service with more quantity. Personal music collection is still my main source though.
I listened to 6k songs, just because spotify has them.
Do i need it? Absolutely not.
I cancelled when they increased the price and i went back to buying an album for life from the discount bin and putting it on repeat with the other 20 albums i still owned.
Back when I had an ipod I spent days downloading songs. I don’t think my listening habits changed all that much, now I just don’t download them via “legitimate” routes anymore
Everyone who listens to the same downloaded 50 song playlist everytime they open Spotify premium is paying for you to use the service
But I use it much more similar to you than those people so I am also winning lol.
Not to mention that if everybody listened like thak guy spotify would just increase prices.
I spent >100$ on concert tickets to listen to artists I found on Spotify. Probably would not have spent this money nor discovered those artists by listening to 50 songs downloaded 10 years ago from Limewire.
Over a hundred? Must have been half a ticket then? Pre-fees of course.
Spotify used to be good but now they charge you the price of buying an album outright.
Might as well buy an album monthly and actually own it.
It was 9.99 for many years and now it’s 10.99, a ~10% increase. Not sure how a single, small price increase in years turns something from good to bad. Sure, there are many reasons to dislike Spotify, but pricing?
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£10 = the price of every single album you listen to in a month, combined?
Yup. When I was kid and teen in the the CD era, I was buying 2 or 3 CDs a month for at least 10 to 20 bucks a pop. Or I would temporarily have my parents sign up for something like the BMG record club when there was a good promo where I could get 10 albums for cheap and then cancel. Fast forward to today and I can get unlimited access to all music for cheaper than a single album per month back in 2005. I don’t know how these economics can make sense even if you factor out physical media and physical distribution.
That works if you listen to just a small number of albums, but I average about 15 unique albums per month and probably 60 per year.
lol yeah I listened to over 150 new genres and thousands of artists this past year (according to Spotify wrapped), buying all those albums would be thousands of dollars if not tens of thousands.
If I was really strict about paying for all my media (which I cannot afford now), I’d buy the albums gradually anyway, starting from ones I like most.
Also how do you discover so much?
To be honest I simply find Tidal + Plex integration to be more convenient than piracy. I’ll pay my $10 per month for the ease of use and still buy an album or two per month from artists I want to support.
My discovery is a combination of Tidal and last.fm similar artists/recommendations and people on various forums. It’s one of the few things I still go back to Reddit for. The other thing is that I like to listen to a band’s full discography when I discover them. I recently found The Ocean and all 9 of their albums are solid. That’s a lot to buy.
Good that it works. I use a free tier of a streaming service for discovery, but I cannot imagine not having my actual collection I listen to the most often depend on a streaming service. You’re locked into only using their player, cannot use a dumb mp3 player at all, can lose all your collection if you’re in a situation when you’re unable to pay, and also the tracks you like might be gone because of copyright shenanigans. The on-disk DRM-less collection is just FAR more comfortable.
I’m not locked into their player. Tidal integrates through Plex and I manage my music library between Tidal and local files there. And again, I still buy albums but we’ve both acknowledged we can’t buy all the music we would listen to.
Wait, you have all your collection local and DRM-less this way? Neat.
No, anything from Tidal is still DRM controlled but it integrates seemlessly with everything I have locally.
Just to add, I do buy albums but more as a way to support the artists. Tidal is for convenience.
