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- cross-posted to:
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Alrighty,
So your system knows the exact situation and still is slowing down my bike, just at the moment I need to accelerate to avoid being overrun by that large truck heading into me.
How stupid are these folks? We’ve got rules, when people don’t follow those rules, you fine them. Case closed.
No system to prevent a bike speeding, teach people to obey the law.
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Now do cars!
Apparently starting ISA in July 2024 https://www.brusselstimes.com/855280/self-braking-cars-all-new-cars-to-be-fitted-with-speed-limiting-technology
The technology to do it has existed for probably almost a hundred years at this point, but it was never implemented because of public pushback.
Hey I used to go to school here, it’s the Wibautstraat at the Hogeschool van Amsterdam
I give this two weeks until a hacker bricks every ebike on their network.
Good! Back to the situation of “I need to use the strength of my legs to accelerate”, much safer
-Guy who has no interest in seeing cars largely replaced with bikes in cities
ummm, what?
E-bikes can replace cars in far more situations than regular bicycles can.
Okay, but would you stop calling me a “guy who (said something that you think he could say)”?
Sure, as soon as you stop hating on e-bikes
Exactly this. Foolish ideas from someone behind a desk.
Nerds and hackers will win this easily.
Nerds and hackers will also win any battle in removing top speed limitations. The issue we’re having right now is that non-techies also have easy access to 60 km/h death machines because they can just buy Chinesium fatbikes with 1kW motors and a preinstalled throttle.
If they start requiring helmets you’ll see this fad die down real quick. As it’s mostly children (or uncivilized adults) buying these to look cool and cause trouble.
Headline 5 years from now, “Dutch hackers sit at outdoor cafes and boost bikers’ pedal control, causing havoc and lulz”.
In much of the EU, a terrorist org or nation state could cause tens of thousands of casualties using a system like this in a matter of minutes.
All they’d have to do is accelerate every bike to top speed at one during peak time. Even if remote acceleration is impossible (or not yet exploited), you could still do a-lot of damage with threshold changes or sudden braking; any remote intervention is a safety and security risk.
There are a lot easier ways to cause damage than this.
Same with speed-limiters for cars, etc.
I wish cars would get speed limiters installed. Trucks and trailers especially, why does a truck try and overtake a car anyway? Or another truck?
Why stop only at e-bikes? Get them installed inside mobility scooters as well, slow down Grandma! /s
There are no US roads I am aware of where the speed limit is over 80mph.
Why can a stock US car go faster than 80mph, then? Why does NHSTA approve of cars that can go double, triple that speed? Makes no sense to me, for sure. Especially when similar agencies are doing idiotic and pointless shit like banning Kei Trucks for “safety” reasons when these vehicles are objectively safer and better for the public than any current-model “light truck” 120mph+ road yacht.
Europe approached this same question with a pretty straightforward answer: Intelligent Speed Assistance.
It’ll be mandatory relatively soon for all new cars, as far as I am aware. It’s already mandatory for new cars in the EU. There’s some nasty privacy implications of it, obviously. Very possibly nasty enough to bring me to a “no” overall on the idea. But the safety considerations are without doubt correct.What is it for though? It’s overridable, so essentially it just makes it easier to ride without paying too much attention. Also, the speedometer legally had to be slightly lower than the actual speed, sp you’re actually driivng slower than the speed limit.
Intelligent Speed Assistance is great, went to Spain a few years back and essentially the car would know the limit of each road and give you a little signal/sound each time you went over. Great feature tbh, took about a day to get used to it at first but after that it was smooth sailing.
Running a motor at or near its mechanical limit for long periods is very bad for it and also is less efficient (in terms of fuel economy). That’s why cars are “capable” of 140mph, even though there is nowhere you can actually drive that fast except for race tracks.
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Texas has a toll road with an 85 mph speed limit https://www.foxnews.com/auto/texas-opens-highway-with-85-mph-speed-limit-fastest-in-america-is-it-too-fast
Always good to get the US perspective on an article about Amsterdam
We Europeans often share our view on US’s business, and you want to gatekeep Americans from sharing their view on European’s stuff? The whole point of a link aggregator with comments is people sharing their view.
They can, cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_speed_assistance with example in this thread
First, you have to catch them. Without plates on the bike, they become anonymous asap.
Secondly, you need to understand us Dutch. Rules are for the Germans, as it’s always smart to ask forgiveness than permission (read: catch us if you can)
Was amazed that the ebikes in Switzerland have number plates.
Then realised it’s Switzerland and of course they do
Anything motorised that’s used in traffic should have license plate to be fair. Kudos to the Swiss
Oh, it’s coming for more countries. In Spain no new ebike/scooter is sold without plates since 2024, and in 2027 it will be illegal to go through puvlic spaces without a licensed plate. This 3 year gap is so that people that bought a scooter in 2023 don’t feel too cheated out.
For anyone that might be interested in this: it’s only for certain ebikes. Standard ebikes that only pedal assist up to 25km/h don’t need anything special over a regular bike, which afaik is the standard limit in Europe. You can get ebikes that go up to 45km/h and they are regulated more like mopeds, requiring a number plate, rear view mirror, and that the rider wears a helmet.
I see the German Maneuver app coming for e-bike, soon™️.
Being a pedestrian in Amsterdam can be pretty bad. Dutch on bikes are insane. No slowing down is allowed. The bike might be rigged like the bus in Speed or whatever. Ready to explode.
People on heavy e-bikes are riding 25km/h over pedestrian crossings with poor visibility.
It is dangerous, and should be treated as such.
Cars in Amsterdam is a much smaller consern than bikes. Really.
Been there. Beautiful city. Terrible biking culture. The Dutch know. They reference it occasionally.
The biking culture in Amsterdam is fine. The problem is tourists standing on the seperate bicycle lanes - colored red, with pictures of bicycles on them - and thinking that they are being assaulted when a cyclist rings their bell to wake them out of their cannabis-induced stupor so they can get to work.
Fat bicycles modified to go faster than 25 km used to be a problem, but they get stolen so quickly now it’s less of an issue. 😆
This seems ripe for workarounds.
It’s not too complicated to fix a motor to your normal bicycle. I wonder how well this will implemented.
That said I’m surprised this is coming from Amsterdam, considering they’re both very pro bike. And I also see very little controversy coming from the Netherlands in general (farm laws primarily)
Very pro bike but only bike. Pretty much any other modality device is banned from public bike paths.
They should do it for cars first and see what happens
If you’re in a situation where you need to outspeed a truck to not die, you have tp consider your life choices. I can’t even imagine a situation that could lead to it, if we don’t count “I just randomly started to cross a busy road” ones.
This makes no sense in the geographical context. The reverse is usually true here in the Netherlands. Modded electric bikes and scooters go way above the legal limit and put themselves in danger by speeding across infront of trafic. Where cars have to suddenly account for them beeing somewhere quicker then expected/ coming out of “nowhere”.
Yes, I know and I see them daily. I was answering on a comment “ooh, they will slow me down and I’ll get in a dangerous situation because of that!” The one thing i don’t see much is "speeding in front of traffic, as in Copenhagen there are not many places where there are no bicycle lanes and the cars are driving fast at the same time.
It’s relatively common for a car to merge into you where I live. If you’re adjacent to the front wheel it’s safer to accelerate the rest of the way than it is to brake.
Edit: it’s also insane that they’re trying to do this with e-bikes before cars.
Amsterdam slowly becoming like India with all those rules 😂
I don’t get it, does India require speed limiters on ebikes?
None as far as I know. But then we enforce speed limits less with rules and more with potholes, traffic jams and narrow roads, so it’s a moot point.
No making everything 30 km/ph so all the scooters and Ebikes go left and right of cars. To be expected people get those fatbikes that go over the speed limit. being almost impossible to get anywhere in the city is frustrating. in a few year it is just like India where no one cares about any rules on the road and crosses everything without looking.
So your system knows the exact situation and still is slowing down my bike, just at the moment I need to accelerate to avoid being overrun by that large truck heading into me.
After reading the article, it seems like the system is supposed to temporarily jam pedal assist, turning your ebike into a regular bike. And the system would need to be installed in all street legal ebikes for that to happen. Since you’re still free to accelerate by pedaling like a normal bike user, that significantly reduces the amount of situations where the pedal assist would actually save you. If you can’t avoid collision by pedaling harder, you probably had no chance in the first place.
Considering most of the inner city’s roads now have a 30 km/h speed limit for cars, collision safety is probably even less of a concern now.
I do share the concern of others in the comments that such a system would probably be broken on day one, and you have a bunch of script kiddies with flipper zeros running around bricking ebikes.
The only way for that not to happen is to use proper encryption for any wireless signals being used to control this system. Considering the Dutch governmental reputation for IT failures, this is probably not going to go well.
But pedal accelerating an ebike is not quite as easy as a regular bike. They’re over 20kg due to steel frames and batteries.
Precisely; for context, it was recently discussed in Dutch media how some of these e-bikes reach 60 km/h. Together with a culture of people refusing to wear bicycle helmets, there’s certainly some more nuance and middle ground.
There needs to be some kind of solution, but doing nothing is not really an option.
And the system would need to be installed in all street legal ebikes for that to happen.
Wouldn’t street legal ebikes not go too fast by default anyway? I feel like if that’s the case, this would mostly inconvenience people with legal ebikes and have barely any effect on illegal ones that can go faster.
Street legal bikes can be modified. This system would, in theory, make it harder to exceed speed limits on assisted pedalling, or at least easier to find those who do it and fine them.
at least easier to find those who do it and fine them.
Missed that part, can you please clarify how?
This is speculative, but since it uses a standardized system, it should be easier to check if anything has been modified. And it is connected to some remote system, so that may allow for extra opportunities to catch them too.
Since you’re still free to accelerate by pedaling like a normal bike user, that significantly reduces the amount of situations where the pedal assist would actually save you.
Bro e-bikes are like 3-6x heavier than normal bikes, manual pedaling sucks and you can’t accelerate for shit
So, implement it in cars… Lethal machines that need to be limited.
“Speed limit enforced by aircraft”
I want “traffic laws enforced by sniper”.
I’m just imagining a Utopia city where everyone is smiling and happy. A few seconds later someone would accidentally break formation and be immediately vaporized
At the rate we’re going it won’t be that long I reckon.
We’ve got that here. You jam a stick in the spokes, then throw the bike and the rider in the canal. Lots of fun.
