Is it time to make Election Day a federal holiday? 🗳️ Some say it would boost voter turnout and align the U.S. with other democracies, while others argue it could create challenges for hourly workers and cost millions. Dive into the debate over whether a federal voting holiday is the best way to strengthen democracy or if there are better solutions. Check out the full breakdown!
Cons: wealthy people will lose money…
deleted by creator
Even easier. Make the shit electronic. Stop pussy footin around and make it available on the Internet.
I know enough about the internet to know that this would end up being a bad idea. Not to say that there isn’t a way to correctly implement it (I honestly don’t know). But even if there is, should we trust them to do it correctly? Our (US) government full of octogenarians?
Why? Everything is on the Internet. You can buy houses and bank on the Internet. There are scams sure. But the physical votes are still tabulated and entered into the fuckin Internet!
Right. And you trust the American government to be transparent with this process? You trust every individual involved in programming this system not to fuck it up in some way, intentionally or not?
There’s just way too much that can go wrong, and more possible attack vectors that could possibly be accounted for. We already have state actors actively attempting (often successfully) to interfere with our elections. What makes you think putting it online wouldn’t make that 1000x worse?
Not to mention you can’t even go back and see what the people really voted. If someone sneaks a
if (vote == KamalaHarris.vote) { DateTime currentTime = DateTime.Now; If (currentTime.Seconds % 3 = 0) DonaldTrump.voteCount += 3; else KamalaHarris.voteCount += 1; }into closed source code, you’ve got fuckery that will take a computer scientist to find, and no way to unfuck the election.
I prefer my paper ballot, thank you, though I’ll allow it to be scanned by a computer, as long as the computer is checked for fuckery like the above first.
The voting machines that those votes are originally entered into are not connected to the Internet, they’re on their own disconnected network, and for very good reason. Software is far from perfect, and putting voting software on the Internet would immediately make it a target from attackers all over the world, and they would absolutely be hacked and manipulated.
I worked in an election. The tabulations are very much uploaded into a main frame.
For record keeping purposes, sure, not as a means to conduct the actual election. In a lot of places, paper ballots are still manually counted. Most places have a Scantron-type device that scans your filled-in ballot, but those machines are not Internet-connected. If they are networked, they’re on their own separate air-gapped network.
Not where I was working. 90 percent were electronically entered. And I didn’t even work in the most affluent county in my state. Electronic voting is very prevalent.
The electronic machines used to cast* votes are not connected to the Internet.
One more absolutely not.
Let’s follow two votes. Vote #1 was cast in Colorado.
- It starts as a paper ballot sent by standard (“snail”) mail from our election division to me, the voter. I am notified it’s coming.
- I mark this ballot like I would an exam, just with a blue or black pen and not a #2 pencil. I’m going to do this in front of my computer, with ballotopedia open and key issues already marked.
- I drop this ballot off at the Election Division drop box. I am notified they received it.
- If there are problems, I am notified that I need to come in and ‘cure’ them.
- Once it’s accepted, I am notified, and then it’s scanned in to a tabulator. Once it’s scanned, it’s stored in a secure box.
- On Election Day, it’s counted, and the results are posted.
- If the election is close, or there is real evidence of criminality, the ballot is retrieved from its secure box and electronically or hand-counted again.
Vote 2 was cast in Louisiana.
- The voter must go to a designated voting centre on a voting day.
- The ballot is voted on an electronic machine that does not generate a paper trail.
- The vote counts are stored within the voting machine.
- If the election is stolen, there is no way to go back and check. The machines say what the machines say, and it’s trivial to engage voting shenanigans without any paper trail to track it down.
I’m going to fight hard for my system, buddy. You can keep your internet voting.
As a programmer I really really don’t think this is an idea we’re capable of implementing in a way that’s safe/secure/etc.
See also: https://xkcd.com/2030/
You aren’t the only programmer in the world
Yes, but I believe e-voting being a bad idea is the common opinion among not just programmers but cybersecurity professionals specifically as well.
I mean, you’re wrong lol
So laughably wrong. It’s a great idea because it puts the power in the people. It is the only equalizer left. The possibility of the outcome greatly outweighs the challenges to make it work.
There are plenty of cyber sensitive occupations that rely on the Internet and work. The fact that this one thing is “not possible” is like giving up without any effort whatsoever.
I’m not wrong lmao. I didn’t say it was impossible, I said the government is not capable of implementing it in a way that would be secure. Put up or shut up, don’t just claim that I’m wrong because you said so lol
The importance of the service is also exactly why it would be one of the most attacked online systems in the entire world. Even relatively secure systems are hit with zero-day attacks that can entirely compromise them. The US government especially is technologically outdated and I wouldn’t trust them to so much as install security updates.
I mean I know you think aren’t. But you are. It’s cool. You know programming to an extent. But there is PLENTY of evidence to show that you are. There are many other applications in use today that show it’s feasible. It’s like arguing the sky isn’t blue because you have your sunglasses on. Sure. It’s in your wheelhouse. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done. It should be. It would equalize everything.
You know programming to an extent
That’s just rude lol, you know nothing about my experience. My personal opinion isn’t even super relevant here though; if we look at the professional consensus, they tend to agree.
I haven’t seen any evidence that you have any understanding of this topic at all. You keep saying we should do it because it would be good-- which it would be-- but wanting something to be easy doesn’t actually make it easy. You say there’s plenty of evidence; SHOW IT then if you’re so confident! I’ll even start, here’s an article by the AAAS with sources: https://www.aaas.org/epi-center/internet-online-voting
The problem isn’t that it can’t be done, the problem is that it can’t be done without disruption.
If eVoting were a thing, how long do you think it would take for 4chan to completely fuck it up?
And I don’t mean in a “In a stunning upset today, the new President is write in candidate Boaty McBoatface”, I mean in a DDoS attack blocking ANYONE from voting.
Heck, even systems that expect mass traffic without interruption go down all the time like when a new game gets released, you think voting traffic is somehow immune to that?
Voting is too important to leave to an electronic system.
Doesn’t matter either way as the only people guaranteed off on federal holidays are government employees.
The Republican Party benefits from low voter turnout, so they’d block this at every opportunity.
they’ve publicly admited they cant win fair elections.
There is zero reason not to have more holidays.
It’s almost as if people should be paid enough and have enough PTO to live and enjoy it, as well as vote.
Of course it should be.
Many argue that advocates should redirect their efforts to create early voting options
Additionally, opponents emphasize that private employers are not required to recognize or give paid time off for federal holidays.
Both arguments against it are whataboutist horseshit. Anyone claiming these as reasons not to also make it a holiday would almost certainly also be against “okay, let’s do all three”, because they are arguing in bad faith.
Can you imagine a world where workers get the day off as a recognized federal holiday but because of early mail in voting they took advantage of they get just a day off during some of the busiest time of the year to get chores and other tasks done and it inspires people to participate more actively and proactively because of the benefits that are overwhelmingly positive?
Its a shame that apparently there might be some lost profits for a day so its apparently impossible, and now we have to make other excuses as if they are legitimate.
If only we could find a way to monotize it and get people buying random low quality junk to trade around so that corps still gets to profit off it.
In Australia we have pre-poll voting (early voting), mail-in ballots, and every election day is a Saturday - with democracy sausages.
And, importantly, preferential voting.
glancing at the current crop of Australian politicians
Seems like the system is still fucked.
Well, yes. Preferential voting is one key component, the other being a decent media so the public have an idea of what’s going on. Unfortunately Murdoch owns just about everything, and it’s a problem we’re still battling against.
a decent media so the public have an idea of what’s going on
You can’t have a decent media if it has been privatized, monopolized, and staffed with reactionaries.
it’s a problem we’re still battling against.
The problem is - as it has always been - a problem of moral hazard with regards to private interests generating income from public expenditures. The Murdochs aren’t simply ideological. Their control of the press affords an enormous windfall of state money via state contracts and grants, tax abatements, and revenue from privatized land and industry.
Would rather just have voting being more than 1 day. Make it a week plus mail in voting.
Have enough states screwing around with voting locations to limit it to just a day
I was surprised to learn that there are still states where you can only vote one day. California and Texas have allowed early voting for over 40 years and it’s so easy to vote. Texas even passed a law requiring polls to be open at least 9 hours the first week of voting and at least 12 hours the second week and final day of voting. I’ve only waited in line twice and the longest I’ve waited was 10 minutes.
Yeah I don’t get lines in Ohio either. Maybe 2-3 mins if I go at a busy time.
When you see the reports/photos/videos of lines, take note of the location of the polling place and what the class and racial makeup of the jurisdiction is. Maybe even take note of the racial makeup of the people in the lines.
Then look at how many polling places per capita they have compared to other areas in the state.
Trying to not have to spell it out…
In Canada every Canadian is guaranteed four contiguous hours off work on election day while the polls are open to vote.
Yes. There are no drawbacks.
We always have elections on a Sunday (you go to your assigned voting place, usually a school) and there’s I think two week period where you can vote in (official voting places placed in) libraries, malls, all kinds of places and you can pick whichever so there’s ample opportunity for everyone. I think mail-in system where you can vote at home and deliver the vote by mail is just for those who are abroad. There’s also the possibility of having people visit you at home to facilitate voting, meant for those who can’t move.
Here in Brazil elections are always on Sunday, vote is mandatory and everybody vote the same day. By 8pm all votes are counted and the result is known.
I always vote after lunch and it’s always empty. Because the vote is electronic, it’s very fast. I get there (we usually vote at schools too), show my photo ID (I use the ID app on my phone), use my fingerprint to unlock the voting machine, type the numbers and confirm, they return my phone and give a coupon to prove I voted and then I go eat a meat pastel and ice cream.
We don’t use electronic voting machines here. It’s all paper ballots. Vote counting is done for pre-voting day ballots so that the result of those is known at 20.00 and only then (at the same time the voting places close) they start counting the voting day ballots (well technically it’s the preliminary count after which the ballots are send to a recount for next day to check for errors). Calculating is done by hand but the result is known usually at around 23, before the recount and the actual final result is confirmed on next Wednesday at 18.00. But that’s a formality.
After voting we usually do coffee or some do beer. “Election coffee” or “election beer” we call it.
Opponents counter that a holiday may not significantly increase turnout and could even create challenges for some workers.
Ok well can we collectively agree that the opponents to this are full of shit? Like, this is less than a no brainer. This is a negative brainer. In that to oppose a national election day holiday, your aim must be less people voting. There’s one party that does well when less working people vote, and surprise surprise, it’s the party that keeps denying us a federal election day holiday. GEE, I CAN’T IMAGINE WHY.
Trump said this week of Democratic voting proposals. “They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.”
From a 2020 Vanity Fair Article, discussing how Democrats wanted to make it easier/safer for people to vote during the pandemic.
