‘You’re Telling Me in 2023, You Still Have a ’Droid?’ Why Teens Hate Android Phones / A recent survey of teens found that 87% have iPhones, and don’t plan to switch::undefined
I think Apple marketing has a role in it. Their commercials and packaging gives the iPhone an elitist aura. Kinda like a calone, jewelry, fancy watches, fancy cars.
Because Apple did a dick move and targeted with paid influencers that segment of population because they are the most succeptible to fashion trends and easy to manipulate due to their natural tendency to buckle to peer pressure in order to integrate and feel accepted?
A truly lost generation
A important thing, that a lot of people here seem to forget: teenagers are more likely to be influenced by fashion trends, than reason, but they aren’t stupid.
I dunno, I’d call that one of the definitions of stupid. Not that they are necessarily overall stupid, but IMO being influenced by fashion trends without reasoning about it is a stupid trait (in kids or adults).
I have an iPhone, but I’d probably prefer an Android just because you can install things from outside the App Store.
After disabling a million warnings, being constantly reminded you should not do it, and i wont be surprised if future versions will require rooting for doing so.
I have always been an android user, but honewtly, if libre android OSes didnt exist, i would have been an iphone user already.
It’s literally just one toggle? It’s been the same for over a decade.
The constant reminders are untoggleable.
Reminders? Like the “this app can’t install unknown apps” notice for installation? Because those only happen for if you execute through a browser or app other than the file explorer for the first time.
With all my due respect, iOS is even worse. They don’t provide access to the file system of their phones/tablets, still refuse to open iMessage to rival OSes, they don’t even release their apps for other operating systems.
You can’t for example backup WhatsApp on Android and restore your backup on iOS.
They don’t support Bluetooth file transfer and they are/were requiring to develop their apps on macOS. Not to forget all those lawsuits they filed against Samsung and other Android manufacturers at the beginning of the smartphone revolution.
In this case, it really is the children who are wrong.
Gen Z here. Even if I could (somehow) afford an iPhone, I can’t imagine buying them because they’re just so locked-down… How can you use a phone you can’t even access file system on? Hell, even load apps the manufacturer doesn’t like? AND sell a kidney for this? Around me, iPhones are a minority but still prevalent, but I am living in a major, pretty wealthy city.
Stock android doesn’t want you to access the file system either. And the stock file manager on iOS/iPadOS is more than enough to do any kind of reasonable file management. And their are legitimate security and data privacy/protection reasons to want to use an abstracted file manager and give apps limited access to the underlying file system.
As far as sideloading, you can do it with a developer account or you can use web apps to fill in the gaps for a big chunk of those use cases. But if you need better performance from sideloaded emulators or virtualization host or programs of those sorts which apple doesn’t allow on the App Store, you will have better luck on android.
iPhone makes a design choice to be more restrictive by default than android but it’s for good reason. If full control of your privacy is something you value then you should definitely consider running an open source ROM on an android phone but you should also consider why you are doing something and consider if it is something that is secure and if there isn’t a better workflow to accomplish the same task.
For instance, on device ad blocking. Do you really trust that ad block developer with permission to inspect network traffic on your device and potentially modify ui elements to block ads (but maybe more). Or is that something that is better left on the edge of your network on a device running pihole.
Sorry to get so wordy on you, but I always getting slightly amused when someone criticizes an iPhone for being locked down and then runs stock pixel ROM with like a couple pirated apps and a shady web blocker on it
And the stock file manager on iOS/iPadOS is more than enough to do any kind of reasonable file management.
My mom was given an iPhone as a gift years ago, so I remember my reaction to this. When you connect it to a computer, you can only see the photos folder. So you can’t even drag-and-drop music there. How is this “more than enough”? Maybe something has changed, I don’t know.
But if you need better performance from sideloaded emulators or virtualization host or programs of those sorts which apple doesn’t allow on the App Store…
You just spoke in favor of not being so strict, lol. But also there are far more common cases where this can impact regular people, such as bank apps being deleted due to sanctions. I personally don’t use mobile banking, but that’s pretty important for a lot of people, isn’t it?
Do you really trust that ad block developer with permission to inspect network traffic on your device and potentially modify ui elements to block ads (but maybe more)
If its code is open to be inspected by anyone - why not?
and then runs stock pixel ROM
That’s not the only alternative. I personally don’t yet use a smartphone properly so haven’t tried, but there are options for custom, more private OSs. Also pixels are pretty expensive so not the best comparison for “common” user.
When you connect it to a computer, you can only see the photos folder. So you can’t even drag-and-drop music there. How is this “more than enough”? Maybe something has changed
I don’t remember when it changed, but it was quite a few ears ago. The solution is iCloud. Your phone has iCloud files enabled, and seems to prefer it (at least for me), and your Windows laptop can be configured with iCloud, similar to how you might use OneDrive or Google Drive. Once you have it setup, you don’t have to think about it. It just works.
That’s not access to the file system lol. That’s just apple’s cloud storage/transfer solution that requires an account and Internet. I mean you can do the exact same thing on Android with Google drive or whatever storage/sync cloud service you prefer.
You can transfer music via iTunes and it doesn’t have to be music with DRM from their store. You can rip MP3’s from any source and transfer them via iTunes. You don’t need direct file access and prevents a third party device from potentially transferring malware to it.
On device, the files app gives you access to the “on my iphone” directory (basically the users home directory) as well as app data directories, and extensions for browsing installed cloud storage. You can create directories, move and copy files, rename and change extensions, or whatever else you might need to do to the files on the device. That’s more than enough for managing files on device.
Android is better for certain workloads and use cases. I’m not advocating that anyone replace android. I’ve used both operating systems and I don’t think either are better than the other. As for banking apps, banks block root on android as well, and they ought too. In the US, by regulation, banks have to reimburse customers for fraud losses from any unauthorized transaction. And the CFPB is very liberal in their definition of unauthorized. So even if you download an app called “Definitely Malware, This app will steal your banking info”, you can get your money back when the hacker logs into your account and drains all your funds. So it’s better for banks to block devices that have root or are jailbroken. As for trusting ad blockers, unless you are downloading and building each update yourself. You are still susceptible to a supply chain attack or bad actor even by using open source. Just because it’s on GitHub doesn’t mean it’s secure. If you are putting your trust in a project just because it’s open source without verification you may as well put your trust in Apple or Google.
I’d recommend everyone look into running an open source, degoogled ROM on android. Whether that’s AOSP or GrapheneOS or something else. I’m just trying to make the argument that iPhone isn’t inferior to android and vice versa
You don’t need direct file access and prevents a third party device from potentially transferring malware to it.
What malware lol. ClickForFreeMoney.apk? Even then, the applications are sandboxed pretty well. Even if you install “malware” it won’t be able to do much unless you also grant it permissions to access personal data.
As for trusting ad blockers, unless you are downloading and building each update yourself. You are still susceptible to a supply chain attack or bad actor even by using open source.
Most adblockers (all the good ones) don’t require frequent updates. They frequently update filter lists, which don’t execute any code and therefore can’t do anything malicious. And what you said applies to every application ever. Anyone can have their credentials stolen and used to publish a modified application.
I’m just trying to make the argument that iPhone isn’t inferior to android and vice versa
I don’t disagree, Androids and iPhones are pretty much at feature and quality parity nowadays. But it sounds like you’re starting from a conclusion and working backwards, which is not a good way to think.
I really can’t agree when you say Pixel phones are expensive. Just look at the value proposition for the 7a. It is currently $444 on the Google store with all the features of the 7 except for a slightly smaller screen and just slightly worse water resistant (we’re talking literally one step down). The closest competition would probably be the Zenfone 10 in terms of value,
$444 is pretty expensive for me. More than half a price of my LAPTOP. Most people I know cannot really dish out this much cash for a phone. Maybe it’s different in the West.
But if you need better performance from sideloaded emulators or virtualization host or programs of those sorts which apple doesn’t allow on the App Store, you will have better luck on android.
It seems like one of the differences is, is your phone a tool to run your life or is it your playground? Those are very different requirements that ought to be separate
My phone is a tool to run my life, so it is important to just work. Similarly, my laptop is pretty vanilla because I want it to just work, my router is out of the box because it’s critical for my network to just work, and my home automation is a default install on a physical box because it is a tool I need to just work. For playtime I have a lab network, and servers and a rPi cluster and VMs, and a bunch of old equipment I could resurrect to varying degrees. I can play all I want, without destabilizing my tools
87% of teens are lazy fucks who don’t know how to download an app that isn’t TicTok, surprised?
It’s scary how tech illiterate most teens / young adults are. Despite the fact that they live their lives through digital interfaces, the majority do not know how to use a keyboard properly.
I wrongly had assumed that by being surrounded by so much tech, young people would just soak it in and strive to optimize it’s use through early mastery. It turns out that despite everyone using tech all the time now, it’s still the same thin slice of the pie that scratch the tech any deeper than the top surface.
But that kinda makes sense. They never had that period where tech sucked and you had to struggle through it. Even as a developer I’m noticing the junior developers amazed at the stuff i know how to do and they ask how i soaked it all up. It’s cuz i had to just to get basic shit to function.
I agree. It’s a stamina related issue too. I’ve noticed that I will search longer and wider for an answer to a problem because you used to have to do that all the time and wade through forums with different tidbits of information that would lead you to understanding how the technology underneath is working. The junior developers often don’t make it past the first search page and they have less of a sense of what related information might be useful and less patience to keep at the search.
I feel this so much. It’s so frustrating to spend 30 mins helping someone who basically gave up after 5 mins of trying. And it’s not easy to teach that ability to search and learn because it’s more of a mentality than a skill.
I think these days either being into PC gaming, streaming, video editing, etc is what provides the motivation to become tech literate with how lot of people these days may not own a device that runs a desktop OS and either uses a phone or console for gaming. Otherwise, being in an ecosystem that just hands people everything by design makes even folder navigation something that can be confusing for new generations as it was for boomers.
https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z
But even those motivations only get you surface deep. I’m glad technology has gotten better but what streamer today has bought a new camera only to find the drivers haven’t been updated and had to go into the system registry to add a new vendor id? Not that this individual task is important but it’s the mentality of being about to fix and manipulate their system when things don’t work…computers aren’t walled gardens. That’s totally lost on this generation.
They are the new boomers now. Like even basic folder navigation is something that is difficult for them.
https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z
Holy shit, yes. I took over some job stuff from a younger guy and when they passed me his files they were all in one giant folder on his Mac. I couldn’t find anything!
It’s like having everything from your house in a single room with the toilet next the the oven.
Tbf, I don’t use prefer clicking thro a series of folders. I rather have a fuzzy finder that help me open any important documents regardless of its format.
Young gen Z here. I remember time when casual adults (not nerds interested in tech) considered kids the experts. From perspective of time I can guess it was because they didnt have any ‘digital sense’ and saw kids playing on mobile devices.
However these days… I everyday see peers using tech in ways we living in tech bubble consider inproper. They use proprietary software, charge battery to 100% and discharge it to full 0, dont care about privacy, accept bloatware instead of flashing rom/uninstalling with adb, they dont know what bootloader is, dont check repairability of devide before purchase, accept everything soldered into motherboard, they think LLM arent just large next-word suggester, they dont boycott companies shitting on them, they use trademarked words while meaning generic things like ‘googling’ and ‘ipad’, post their real profile photos on facebook, they accept predatory monetization models.
I dont want to say Im smarter than everyone, but Im just sad that this gen fell so low.
I agree with the first part, but knowing about bootloader and flashing rom to a new phone is hackerman level, not a regular tech-savvy user.
New generations having hacking skills is more like a cyberpunk novel, reality is lower attention spans, worst reading skills and over-simplified UIs. People gravitate to the simpler way.
Part of what happened is schools stopped teaching the muggle kids basic computer skills, assuming “they’re young so they must innately know this,” and went all-in on locked down Chromebooks for everything. The average household doesn’t own a computer, just uses phones, and schools took away the only opportunity for them to have exposure to real computers.
Exactly, I feel like what used to be a “ask a 14yr old” type tech question is now an “ask a 40yr old”
Using “to google” actually invalidates the trademark eventually, since it becomes generalized
No kidding. I’m in my late 30s and regularly have to help 18-24 year old coworkers with connecting their phones to the bluetooth speakers or help with stuff on the computer. I never thought that would happen when I was growing up. I always thought they’d be much better than me!
It feels like a bell curve of technological literacy… most boomers knew jack shit, gen x has a decent amount of tech literates, Millenials are the peak, and then it seems to have started dropping back down from there.
I feel like we’re getting old. Is this our “kids these day can’t even change their own oil” moment?
I couldn’t imagine any of these kids having to deal with a dos prompt.
Then again the thought of having to be on instagram robs me of control over bodily functions.
Probably the same teens paying stupid money for trainers that someone scribbled on with sharpie!
I have no issue with iPhones, but I’ve never owned one, and have no intention of buying one in the foreseeable future. “It just works” has never appealed to me as a marketing tactic. I want to know how things work, and have access to get in and play around with things.
After getting an iPhone for my mom, and running into multiple issues just setting up the account, including an apparently rare known UI bug*, I can’t say I am convinced by the “It just works” slogan.
I really don’t see the difference in experience for an average person buying any big brand android phone vs an iPhone.
*something about an old account re-setup not working on the phone and apparently some steps had to be done in the web interface. The phone UI was just giving an unspecified error and I had to dig deep into Google to find out wtf is wrong. A non-tech person would have no chance of solving it on their own.
My beef is with Apple playing the good guy when anyone with half a brain knows they are just as bad as everyone else. Their whole ecosystem lock in without caring about anything else is what really gets me. They are literally opening up their users to potential privacy issues because they would rather force people to use an iPhone than implement basic RCS capabilities.
Disposable society at the max. They done got the new generation to accept planned obsolescence…
Fuck that, Right To Repair!
I don’t get this. Are you saying that iPhones are more disposable? iFixit says iPhones are more repairable than almost all android phones.
The software situation is no contest. My iPhone 6s, released in 2015, is still getting security updates in 2023. It got its last OS update in 2021. Meanwhile, most premium flagship Android phones don’t get security updates for more than 3 years, much less OS updates, and even that’s a recent change.
Not to say iPhones couldn’t be better, but I left Android specifically because of longevity. I wish all phones were as repairable as Fairphone.
Bruh, it takes a specially made and programmed laser to disassemble their epoxied phones these days. Where you been?
Did you not look at the link they provided? iFixit is a pretty well respected site and the iPhone 14 and 14pro are both rated more repairable than the most popular Android phones. Looks like Fairphone and a few other niche Android brands are the only ones that have Apple beat.
Depends on the device you get. Guess what?
Out of my 4 fairly new Android devices, not a damn one of them are epoxied together.
Why does epoxy matter for it being “disposable”? No one has a problem getting their iPhone fixed.
You are either a troll or an idiot. Maybe both. I hope I’m wrong though.
You must not know anything about the R2R movement, the Right To Repair. Apple certified techs aren’t allowed access to schematics or parts, their entire goal is to sell you a new device.
No need to be rude.
Again, youre wrong. Both Apple and Samsung release repair manuals and provide replacement parts. Literally no one has a problem getting either phone repaired.
I’m all for right to repair, but android phones suck for planned obsolescence so acting like they’re better about this is delusional. Don’t give them a pass.
Check out the iFixit link in my previous comment. iPhones might suck for repairability, but they’re better than almost every Android phone. Where’s your evidence?
I don’t need evidence, I spent over 7 years repairing them. I can reassemble certain Apple devices in my sleep, but you won’t catch me dead with one.
Like WTF? They start off in the device setup like ‘Please enter your CC number’…?
Adding a CC to your wallet is optional, Android offers similar card storage too so I don’t really see your point. It stays on device fully encrypted anyway.
So your anecdote is more reliable than the analysis of the biggest repair site on the internet? (Ugh, I hate internet debates sometimes.)
I have never had a problem getting my iPhone fixed. But with 3 years max software support on Android, that’s not only planned obsolescence, it’s guaranteed obsolescence. Disposability is what your original comment was about.
Think you meant to reply one comment up the chain
No, that’s not optional on iPhone, you can’t even use their app store even for ‘free’ apps unless you enable their app store with a CC number.
Unless something seriously changed since 2017 when I gave up on Apple…
Actually not true. I just set up a device for a friend the other day and absolutely skipped adding any payment info and was able to download apps. Why are you spreading so much misinformation?
Didn’t even consider the App Store, I was busy thinking about the wallet. You’re right.
And being able to easily side-load apps. Also being able to just use a USB C cable like every other device. ( will not apply to future EU, but will probably remain relevant other places ).
I just really fucking hate apple and thier walled garden bullshit.
Ha, I forgot about USB-C. My niece’s iPhone was dead and we had nothing to charge her phone with. We were absolutely surrounded with tech but not a single Lightning cable. Forced incompatibility was having a leopards ate my face moment.
Name one Android phone that gets 5 years of the latest OS, without rooting or installing a third party OS, followed by another couple years of security updates.
The Fairphone. Fairphone 2 was updated from Android 5 through 10 (5 years on the latest version) Fairphone 3 started at 9 and is currently on Android 13, that’s five years, and hasn’t had it’s last update yet.
That’s two Android phones with at least 5 years on the latest OS, and Fairphone 2 got patch updates until this year, giving it support and updates from 2014 until 2023
Interesting. It’s great that Fairphone is actually living up to their promises!
FairPhone 3 user here. It’s true, just updated to Android 13, came with 9.
Additionally: Micro-SD, Dual-SIM, replaceable battery, can be repaired by myself at home, cheap/fair priced replacement parts and ethically sourced ressources.
It. is. possible.
Granted, Fairphone had to entirely do the BSP and entire update themselves because the SoC vendor doesn’t support A13.
The real issue here isn’t with the OEMs it’s the chip set vendors not supporting Android as long.
Why you want the latest OS anyways? Just to lock you out of features your device is otherwise capable of?
That’s the way things are going. Try keeping up would ya?
Sure, if you don’t care about being able to install new apps. Apple has many faults, but planned obsolescence is not one of them, especially since they OFFICIALLY support their devices 2-3 times as long as every single Android device out there.
Also, every iOS update has added functionality. I feel like I get a new phone every fall.
Apple has many faults, but planned obsolescence is not one of them
You’re joking, I hope. Does “batterygate” ring any bell?
Or maybe you want to look at Macbooks?
Or Airpods?
“Batterygate” was a PR issue. They should have been transparent that replacing the battery fixes it. Lithium ion batteries have a finite lifespan.
MacBooks and AirPods are a right to repair issue, not planned obsolescence. Right to repair is something that the industry as a whole sucks at and it’s getting worse because every company is going down this path, not just Apple.
Right to repair is my biggest issue with Apple. They need to do better at this, especially if they’re claiming to be so “green.” However, I’m not letting everybody else off the hook when one and two year old smartphones are rendered obsolete by the other OEMs through software.
Maybe I want my phone to run the battery down quickly and get the full performance of my hardware. In typical Apple fashion, they’ve decided what’s best for the user without giving them a choice or explaining what’s happening or why.
There’s no point in arguing with folks like that. They’re way more interested in platform wars than an honest argument. When they stick to the tired “planned obsolescence” lines from 10 years ago and try to argue that having a 2 year old phone that no longer gets security updates is a good thing, you know they jumped the shark years ago and are just posting in bad faith at this point.
Haha agreed, I just can’t resist sometimes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Believe me I get it :) It’s hard for me to resist too but sometimes there’s no winning. And winning isn’t even what we’re after usually. Just an honest back and forth about the pros and cons about the tech we all enjoy. It’s too bad that kind of discourse is so hard to come by these days :/
Oh no, no platform wars from me. Whatever operating system works for you, awesome!
But these companies that have gone so far as to glue or epoxy their batteries in, well that’s totally planned obsolescence.
Guess it’s only a coincidence which operating systems work with which devices… 🤔
Our shop literally wasn’t allowed to purchase new iPhone batteries, because of US Customs. My boss had us using scrap batteries from spare parts devices, while still selling them off to customers as though they were ‘new’ batteries.
Any wonder why I quit in 2017? Wanna try again?
Again, name ONE other smartphone that is supported by the manufacturer for 5+ years.
As far as smart phones, what, are you trying to defend planned obsolescence?
Seriously, if the old tech could last 8+ years, why should the new tech be so shitty to only last a few years or so?
Shouldn’t we be upgrading to devices meant to last 20+ years?
My definition of “planned obsolescence” includes devices that either come with outdated software from the factory, or devices that stop getting OS updates after a year or two. To accuse Apple of planned obsolescence in this context is absurd to me when all of their competitors are objectively worse at supporting their phones.
My roommate’s dumb flip phone lasted 8 years.
Thinking about framing the parts actually.
Only reason it quit working was because they shut down 3G service here.
Apple has the longest support of any phone maker by far.
Ah, the easy days of being an obnoxious asshat while mum and dad buy your expensive tech for you.
Let them enjoy it, they have yet to grasp how dire the situation is.
When I was that, I became a Linux user the moment I realized I can’t just use XP or 2000 (what was on our home PC) on a laptop coming with 7, cause no drivers. Some literacy followed.
What I really felt bad about - everybody around carrying that expensive tech without any understanding of it, as if it were normal to use a portable personal computer for Instagram, Facebook, making photos etc. Like hitting nails with a microscope.
It’s actually become less disgusting today. Back then (around 2012) normies would aggressively behave as if progress looked like Instagram, Facebook etc, with their dumb screen poking, and my idea of how computing would be cool is something stupid and old and imaginatory , as if they had any understanding to evaluate that.
OK, just a little flashback.
I do agree with right to repair, but I tried to leave apple. And it was fucking miserable.
3 different places to change settings. Some don’t have all the settings to change so you have to go to another. Fuck all that.
And the auto correct adapts to your fuck ups, and changes them to your fuck ups? No thanks.
I’m not a fan boy. I just want it to work or know where to fix it.
The analogy I have always used is that it’s like trying to cook in someone else’s kitchen and all of the things you need aren’t where you’d usually look.
I have the same theory that I always mention to those who are hesitant to switch devices!
I used to be annoyed about not having my Android devices work like iOS.
Enjoying new tech was a lot better after I started viewing them as different devices instead of pure replacements.
Get a different keyboard, bro. Changing your default keyboard has been a thing on Android for like a decade and a half. Even so, most keyboards these days have a shortcut that’s basically ‘long press the wrong prediction -> don’t predict again’
Also, the android settings menu has had a search function for a few years now. You don’t have to know where to look to find most things.
Google Keyboard will do the same, adapt to your quirks of typing. I actually find that semi-useful sometimes as I occasionally write software, but yeah you should always carefully monitor your text before you post it.
But you can also clear the saved autocorrect entries and start again.
I actually did that a couple months ago. For whatever reason, GBoard is still acting up lately, like it takes 20 seconds or so before I can even type the first character sometimes.
Thinking about perma-switching to Hacker’s Keyboard
Please tell me that I’m not the only person who immediately thought of this when reading “droid”
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/hWDeZpwesAg
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
87% of teens are mentally ill (speaking from experience)
