If you have any wisdom, you will support them. Full left or nothing else will work.
Lol they aren’t even full left, at all. We’ve deluded ourselves into thinking common sense and not being bought by the billionaires and corporate lobbies is “full left”
As far as I know, they are social-democrats, full-left would be anti-capitalist or anarchist, which they are not.
I thought Bernie was at least an actual socialist. That’s the impression I got.
He claims democratic socialist, but his stated policies are social democrat.
Isn’t it compatible with the democrat socialist philosophy of progressive change as opposed to a revolution?
Yeah I was just clarifying that Bernie is not a democratic socialist himself, he just misuses the label (although that misuse is more common than not nowadays)
What I am saying is that he may actually be one, but he pushes social democrat politics as progressive steps towards democratic socialism. Also probably by electoralism, to avoid scaring some voters.
Looking into it further, you may be right. It looks like in his younger days he was more vocally socialist and pushed harder for more immediately and obviously socialist ideas but tempered that at some point, likely to make himself more appealing to win elections. Some people claim he is not a real socialist regardless because he is reformist.
You seem to be correct according to his Wikipedia pages, he describes himself as a democrat socialist (which is more anti-capitalist than social democrat), but also an admirer of Northern European social democracies, and certainly an opponent of neo-liberalism. I guess he would oppose communism in his vision of giving economical power to people through democratic worker unions and cooperatives, rather than having everything centralized by an authoritarian state.
removed by mod
in AOC and Bernie I trust
No. Don’t make them into idols. Let them be good leaders, and let Americans do good worthy of trust.
Of course, but inspirational and encouraging.
Truly hopeful
Start showing up.
If only this turn out had actually opposed trump at the polls
I’m educated enough in American politics to understand elusive news about Musk ans Trump but about not that Bernie guy. Is that a first or last name and what was the point of the rally? Also is a rally like a démonstration?
It’s a first name. He’s a politician somewhere between PS and UDI on the spectrum, so for Americans he is an extreme radical leftist, for normal people a basically sensible centrist with some heart. Has a cult following for a long time, seems like a nice guy probably.
A rally is like a demonstration but with establishment politicians speaking.
so for Americans he is an extreme radical leftist
literally only right wingers would call him that.
…which are essentially the entire electorate and media apparatus supporting both parties…
That description is a bit tongue in cheek, but most Americans would call him far left or whatever they think is a non pejorative way to say the same thing. Just look at this very thread, you have people calling him a socialist and “truly left”, they are not right wingers, or at least they wouldn’t think of themselves that way, and you probably wouldn’t either. And like, yeah, he has some lefty ideas, but globally speaking he runs a pretty centrist platform. I guess it’s necessary in America, supporting trade unions and healthcare is as far left as you can go, maybe his personal views are a bit better and it is just a calculation.
Bernie Sanders is a Senator for the state of Vermont. Be has run for president and went pretty far on a socialist platform. Far enough that when you refer to him by his first name while discussing politics, just about every American knows who you are talking about. If there is a truly left wing politician in American government, it’s Bernie. And while it doesn’t say a lot about the state of things, it does say quite a bit that so many people showed up to hear him speak.
LOL socialist
fwiw this is what I’ve been saying since November. Just have Bernie and AOC tell us which way to jump. Then - we do that.
No Joe Biden is the incumbent he is clearly the best candidate.
Hell yeah!
I’d kill to see a Bernie/AOC rally outside of Chicago.
I went ahead and donated to their campaign, but if you’re in a similar boat, give this link a look:
+1 for Chicago. I would make the time for it, as hard as that is now. We need this.
Okay, 34,000 people gathered together for their cause, and then what? What did they actually do?
Did they use the opportunity to communicate and organise themselves, set concrete goals and choose the leaders of their movement that could execute on these goals with their support? Did they all leave with an understanding of what their next actionable steps towards their goals would be?
I look at this a bit like a work meeting in a way, you’ve gathered people together but if all they’re accomplishing is hanging out patting each other on the back for agreeing with each other for a few hours then wrapping up, that’s a pointless meeting.
They need to have a command structure, an organised plan, and a goal with concrete next steps to try to work towards it.
34,000 people took time off work, away from their families, etc, to travel there for something they’re very passionate about, you’d think they’d use that time with their allies wisely and constructively, right?
Given that the media isn’t on their side, just showing up in large numbers to mill about for a bit isn’t going to make big waves, it’ll be quietly reported on and immediately forgotten by those not already a part of their cause. Protesting just isn’t going to cut it. Not until 34,000 becomes 3,400,000 anyway.
But it’s still a great opportunity to build your new movement. Imagine if all those people had gone home knowing who is in charge, what the chain of command is (it’s not like everyone can liaise with the movement’s leader directly all the time, you need a structure to your movement/organisation), and imagine if they had a concrete plan of actionable things they can do before the next meetup (which should have been set by those leading at lower parts of the organisation - don’t leave an important meeting without knowing when your next check-in will be).
Imagine what they could do if they really, actually organised for effective action, instead of just harmlessly protesting.
They have so much power, they’ve just never been taught how to wield it.
This reminds me of the “Why aren’t people protesting?” comments, ignoring that people…are.
The consistency of protests and town halls even in red districts has indicated to me that people are attuned and active, even if the news cannot (and in some cases refuses to) fully cover every square inch of their actions. As many have said, “The revolution will not be televised.”
it’s like the tech industry developed an AI for self-driving goal posts
afaik every person there bought a gun and joined the Soup And Rifles Collective on the way home. the entire state has declared open rebellion, the ICE facility (GEO group owned) in aurora has been broken open and the captives reunited with their families. throughout the streets Les Miserables is heard and the revolutionary council has elected a spokeswoman to bring their demands to Washington. all from one rally! i really think they could’ve done more but we’ll see what next weekend holds
👆 Room temperature IQ take.
This is the opposite of a headless mob with no goals. This is an explicit show of support for these politicians and their platform. The goal is to elevate the message both generally and within the Democratic party.
If nobody shows up to support it then the top brass can ignore them. The large crowds force the issue, it’s a de facto primary on policy. Suppressing and ignoring the issue is a bad look. It only works if opposition doesn’t reach a critical mass to tip the scales.
The exact same thing happened when Trump hijacked the Republican party. Opposition Republicans were faced with getting on board or losing on a split ticket, and suddenly every primary at every level was a MAGA-off
Cool. So what policy changes did they enact? None? Then who gives a fuck?
Action, not words, AOC. Action, not words, Bernie. Fucking stfu and DO something.
Getting their base energized and angry about the current situation is doing a lot more than introducing a bill that has a 0.00% chance of getting passed. The chances of them talking to the high ranking party officials and getting them to reverse course probably has the same chance of success.
It helps to use your brain to actually think about the outcomes of actions. On the off chance that I’m just being an asshole, please let me know what is a better use of their time.
If another four years of Trump and the threat of project 2025 wasn’t enough to make these people do the bare minimum it would have taken to stop it, I honestly don’t see how a few empowered speeches will do more than jack-shit to motivate them.
I wish it were different, but we’re taking about a group of people who have a proven track record of stopping short of walking the walk.
You’re right it is much better for them to give up.
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Or the ok, or the mildly evil in this case.
What are you doing besides uselessly bitching and moaning about how others aren’t doing enough. Grow up, shit will never be perfect in the real world and we are on the edge of a fascist regime coup. Even if Bernie doesn’t do shit, getting that many people together is still a net positive compared to him voting on stuff or talking to people or introducing bills that will never pass just so morons think he is doing something better than rallies.
Getting large groups of people together repeatedly is the most important thing that can happen right now. Quit bitching and fucking do something.
lol… again. Gathering people in large groups is not an action. It’s just accumulation. VOTING is an action.
No mountain was moved moved because a bunch of people gathered at is base and shouted at it.
And I find it ironic that the advice you’re suggesting is the exact same thing I see presented to the far left/progressive do-nothings that sit at home and watch everyone else try and cast their votes to save their sorry asses, or wait until shit gets this bad before they mobilize into larger clusters of do-nothings to stand around and smugly criticize everyone that warned them this would fucking happen.
They helped make the bed. They can lie in it with the rest of us that didn’t.
The real irony is that currently there are not even local elections to be had where I am. I’m case you are new at voting, it’s not continuous. Saying the only action is voting is… Well if you haven’t gotten the point by now you are not going to.
I vote. I don’t just vote every 4 years either, and that didn’t just start with Trump. If you don’t understand that more action is required than just voting at this point you need to look up from whatever you have your head stuck in. We are already in uncharted territory and while the rallies are not perfect, they are better than doing nothing and sitting on your hands until the next election.
“They helped make the bed. They can lie in it with the rest of us that didn’t.”
Yes there are a lot of dumb fucks who seriously fucked up the election, and yeah they were wrong on so many levels. This isn’t about being right, or having superior principals. This is actually about survival. The collapse and changes will be violent, and we are so fucking close to changes you can’t even imagine. So grow up, stop complaining about how other people didn’t do enough. It is just a childishly small thing to get hung up on.
DO SOMETHING. Protect yourself, your family, your friends and those that can’t protect themselves.
lol. Naah. We’re done. It’s over. I’m just making sure that those responsible are able to see what they’ve done. See the damage they caused to so many people. They walked lockstep with the trumpers, and now they will suffer alongside them.
Best now to just make sure everyone can recognize them for who they are and properly lay the blame at their feet where it belongs.
Because ALL of this was avoidable.
Now, there’s not much else to do about it.
I really hope you are a TURF account, I would have more faith in humanity at that point, at least that person is doing something.
I didn’t think you are. Your apathy, hate, and small world view combined with you ignorance in how bad situations can get and the privilege to think it can’t happen to you is really sad.
If you are dead set on lying in bed and doing nothing, please do that and shutt the fuck up. Don’t spread shit that only benefits the fascists just because you are to ideologically pure to do something.
“introducing a bill that has a 0.00% chance of getting passed” is Bernie’s function.
So he can look like the real leftist who is really trying.In this environment … bipartisan politics haven’t played a meaningful role in national US government since … Oh. George W Bush, maybe.
Yes keep it going we need people to show out
I fear for her safety. I hope she stays safe.
God I really needed this. Finally some positivity against the insanity. Glad we are finding our backbone!
That’s like the population of a small town
They need to organized this momentum into a proper party, maybe call it the labor party or the progress party. But most importantly they need to not be scared to use actural leftist rhetoric and appeal to class conscious workers.
Bernie is already third party
Why does nobody know anything about American Politics, including the Americans…
He’s independent, meaning no party
Because hundreds of millions of dollars are spent to make real information seem as confusing and boring as possible
Now, this? This is hilarious right here.
Some people think independent is a party. Like the Independent Party. Pretty silly but yeah. That’s why I changed from telling people I was independent to saying I’m unaffiliated with any party.
What about Working Families party?
Tbh I dont really take them seriously
Onward Together Party
EverForward Party
Inspired Collaboration Party
Positive Frontier Party
Disagree. There are a huge number of republican working class that need representation, and who are not the enemy.
The anti-1% party is a much more viable proposition than going left vs right.
The Democrats tried that, they tried appealing to the mythical “centrist conservative” and look where that got them, it has been proven to be a failing strategy. We dont need another “bipartisan” Democrat-like party, we need a workers party.
I’m trying to say that process is made by classifying voters in terms other than left/center/right.
There are only two political classes, those who are class conscious and those who are not. It matters not what word they’re called, only that as many people became class conscious as possible.
I can’t disagree with your definition, but I can’t believe people who are not class conscious always vote republican.
Sometimes they vote Democrat
I mean, I would love that, but if we start running a third party in national elections against the Democrats and Republicans from the left, the Republicans will win even more. If we can’t get FPTP changed I’m afraid the only option I can see is to destroy and rebuild the Democrats.
Well I guess there’s a possibility that when Trump dies the Republicans implode. I’d love to see it but their voters always toe the line. I think this time it will be whoever right wing media decides are the new bosses.
Anti-1% is left vs right
I don’t believe this is true, the right won the last election but people outside the 1% voted for Trump.
You don’t have to be the 1% to vote for them.
Leftism literally originates from replacing monarchy and aristocracy with democracy, fighting the 1% is leftism.
Show me the conservative critique of billionaires. I know how that works on the left, but the right is about preserving power structures
billionaires Don’t Share Our Values™️
QED
Unless one of your values is to take wealth from those that don’t share your values, this is not a critique that will lead to meaningful corrections. I guess that could be a conservative value, but now you’re just doing identity politics.
There are a few Republican representatives that claim to be pro-union, which has gotten them into office. I don’t know how much they can do when both parties have been generally anti-union.
Like Democrats, many Republicans are just voting for the “lesser evil” and aren’t really loyal to their party. They just hate Democrats.
A new party sidesteps and allows those “lesser evil” Republican working class voters to jump ship. They will not ever vote for a Democrat, so stop being Democrats.
This idea is so simple, and the idea of it changing the course of history would be such a dumb-timeline thing, that I am 100% convinced it would work.
It would give them the ability to talk some harsh shit on Democrats, which could work on some Republicans. But I’d still worry that the effectiveness of their propaganda machine and the tendency of conservatives to fall in line and do as they’re told would spoil it.
