All the politicians are paid by the same billionaires.
But the blue ones say they are my friend and the red ones do not.
So who will you vote for the next “election?” Supreme Führer Trump and his league of cartoonish evil, or the spineless cowards who will do nothing to make things better?
dems are as crooked as the rest. nancy does insider trade since decades and chuck schumer is just evil ignoring what israel does. or remember the black fig leaf obama? nobody has ever ordered more deadly airstrikes in countries you are not at war with. i think this entire “american dream” thing was just metaphoric for a modern form of slaves and kings. just think of it: who were those that left europe for the new world? sleezebags, greedy goldsearchers…just ppl who were bad anyways. and thats what their entire fake culture is built on.
But if we vote/advocate third parties, or converse in conservative spaces or .ML, .Lemmygrad*, on Lemmy, we’re trolls or shills. 🤮
Guillotine Party. A Democratic version of the Tea Party. Don’t promote a third party; replace the current one from the inside out.
Promote electoral reform. Something we can do one state at a time.
Its not electoral reform or state action that we need. Its the DNC. Their policies and positions support the billionaire Problem Class. The Guillotine Party needs to decapitate the billionaire class and their political lapdogs in the Democratic party.
The funny part is that this is an actual centrist position: there is broad bipartisan support for attacking the oligarchs. If the Democrats would actually go after them, the GOP would have to do the same. We would end up with two parties focused on class warfare instead of none.
This is the time for third parties. I get why people were saying not to talk about them during the election but now is the time because it’s obvious that the Dems continue to not have a spine.
Absolutely agreed. And I’m not sure the better alternative to Reddit is a “federated” platform where the mods highest priority seems to delete comments that call the Democrats what they are: nice Nazis.
Blue MAGA
Yet I keep hearing from y’all (world users) “wahhhhh we need to blindly back the Democrats” and “When the dems elect someone significantly more right than Kamala like Shapiro or Fetterman we need to blindly vote for them”.
Exactly! The time for third parties is between elections. 😜
I get why people were saying not to talk about them during the election
But the Dems lost by such a large majority that even if every single third-party voter had voted for Harris, she would still have lost to Trump. So censoring us then wasn’t any better than censoring us now.
Non-voters cost the election, not third-party voters. People need to fucking stand up and stop sucking the Democrat Party teets. They don’t care about you any more than the Republican Party cares for you.
If everyone who is bitching about the Dem party threw their support behind a third party, then the Dems would finally realize that they need to change their ways.
Until then, Dems are just gonna keep losing.
It was obvious every election cycle since FDR too. It’s past time for us to stop crossing oceans and moving mountains for those who won’t jump a puddle or molehill for us. Politicians, I mean. I’ll still cast my vote to help the “sane liberals”, conservatives, and marxists who would let me starve in the streets or drop dead in the fields while harvesting their food, or in their bathroom I may be cleaning at the time.
And yet, the 3rd parties themselves don’t seem to do anything until the Presidential election year. If they were serious, they’d be out there now, putting up candidates in the much-easier-to-win midterms, talking about how they’re really different from the entrenched parties. They don’t. They only come out of the woodwork and put up spoiler candidates for President.
Not committing self harm isn’t equivalent to Moving Mountains etc. This is the whole problem with that standpoint. Yes the genocides that the United States Russia and China are committing are inexcusable. They were also not actually on the ballot. There was no one who stood a chance of getting elected that was going to make those better. But there was one that vowed to make things worse. And they won. Like many of us said they would. There is no single one group that deserves credit for that victory. But the margin of votes was with in single digit percentage. It wasn’t moving a mountain.
I’m not here to accuse you of being happy with the outcome. But can you admit that you might have been taken advantage of. That your sincere Ernest desire to see things fixed may have been manipulated and taken advantage of to your own detriment and the determent of people you care about. Because I can tell you 100% that fascists, leninists, and other groups absolutely we’re stirring the pot. Not caring about who got hurt.
I have no problem with anyone talking to them and trying to de program any of those groups. What I do have a problem with, are people repeating propaganda and being manipulated by these groups to get everyone hurt. We are here.
As an anarchist I wish to see all national parties disbanded and abolished. Democrat, republican, green, libertarian, vanguard. And you’re not wrong that a lot of this has been going on since and including FDR. He should have actually tried and hung everyone found guilty of being involved with the business plot. Instead of making backroom deals to get Social Security Etc passed. Something which the people he spared set about immediately after it’s passage, gutting it.
The sad thing is, that Democrats deny their role in the failure, just as many of the so-called people on the left who spent so much time attacking them. But as they say success has many fathers, while failure is a bastard.
You’re only worried about the immediate future. Which, yes, is bad. But many refusing to vote for the DNC are doing so because they’re complicit in enabling this bullshit political atmosphere where people are so tired of bullshit politicians who do shit like break a record to “stand up to trump” and then vote to confirm his appointee. So they either give up on voting altogether or are willing to vote for a literal dictator and the DNC’s response is to fight harder against progressives than it does trump. Then in response to losing runs someone whose message is “nothing will fundamentally change.”
So, yeah, if people had completely abandoned the DNC like they should have, maybe we wouldn’t have ever seen it get this bad. But they’re happy with it this bad. They get to pretend they care and keep making money. So yeah, there are plenty of people who refuse to vote for them because they’re happily helping to destroy democracy. (Including suing to remove 3rd parties from ballots, yay!)
Are you implying that the kidnappings torture and persecution are only short-term? Do you not understand that we will have to win back our basic rights at this point. Not just for our immigrant friends and family, but all minorities? That seems a really obtuse and uninformed viewpoint. Which I’m hoping it’s just a misunderstanding on my part. And that that’s not your actual stance. This shit is serious and not short-term. We will be suffering this for Generations.
I mean unless you have some Surefire non-vanguardist radical action in your pocket or something.
Literally just said I know it’s bad. Not implying it isn’t. I’m saying the DNC has been actively working towards this even being possible for years. Because they only need to run hitler -$50. And they’re happy with that. They would rather lose to Trump than lose any money. And that’s why people stop voting. And that’s why Trump is fucking even possible.
I’m just fucking tired of people defending the DNC. They’re just as big of a part of the problem as republicans.
The voters are as much to blame as the dnc. Stop trying to push all the blame on to them. So which is it and be clear. Am i only concerned about short-term shit. Or is this shit meaningful and you’re just flip-flopping wildly. Twisting in the wind trying to pin everything on Democrats and nothing on you or anyone else like you.
The sad thing is, that Democrats deny their role in the failure
Yes!!!
When have people (outside isolated trolls) accused 3rd-party advocates of being shills? If the “Tanky Triad” only supported an end to “first-past-the-post” voting, that would be one thing. But when I visit, I’m inundated with propaganda championing fascists who want to ignore reality and bend the population to their will. That’s not liberalism, and it’s certainly not Progressive Politics…
When have people (outside isolated trolls) accused 3rd-party advocates of being shills?
Take a look at some older posts from before the election. It was a fucking witchhunt on third-party advocates. Every single one was accused of being a paid russian shill. Every. Single. One. lol
some older posts
Do you have some examples? Like I said, all I experienced was disingenuous comments.
EDIT: My bad, I thought we were talking about people (plural) advocating against 3rd-party candidates in general. I still haven’t seen that. But yeah, Jill Stein is sus as fuck. You’re allowed to think otherwise, but pointing that out doesn’t make someone a shill.
Just type in “Jill Stein,” or “Green Party” in the search function, and pick c/politics from the months before November. That’ll be enough, because in those threads, even talks of other third parties, were madly downvoted and people were banned left and right. lol
That’s also why the other poster commented on it. Even in this very thread you see a lot of people bitching about third parties. But it’s way more acceptable to talk about it now than it was then. It was fucking crazytown here before the election! lmao
So… Still no sources. Not one…
EDIT: If you don’t think Jill Stein is a Russian asset after reading all the credible allegations, I don’t know what to tell you. Of course you’re allowed your opinion, but that’s still not evidence of people saying 3rd-party candidates in general are bad.
What? Did you even do that?
https://feddit.org/post/2903837
https://feddit.org/post/3522938
https://feddit.org/post/3041220
And that’s just a light start. Those comments were tame. The closer it got to the election, the more rabid people got if they found out u were voting third party.
I know dude, I was there. Back then, term “Russian shill” was used as much as “Nazi” and “Fascist” is now. Even the Dems here will probably admit things were heated. It was crazy how much mistrust and accusations where flying around. Russian shills, propaganda, bots, lots of people were accusing lots of people being those things.
Seriously, just look around at the threads in those time periods, besides the ones I posted. It was fucking crazy. You can even ask the mods here. They even mentioned how difficult it was modding things.
They even locked several posts down because the comments were getting too crazy.
Aside from Jill Fucking Stein, I still don’t see evidence that wide swaths of people were advocating against 3rd parties in general. Yeah, there are definitely credible allegations against her, and both Putin and the GOP absolutely took advantage of her spoiler status in the election. Maybe you think she sat at the table with Putin himself without knowledge of him using her?
When I am accused of such things, I tend to doxx myself as Yevgeny Prigozhin. Claiming to be a primary source within Wagner has its uses.
I’m not even sure if you’re joking or not, but you do know he’s dead, right?Edit: Nvm, you’re joking.
Ha! I forgot about that dude! He was in the news a lot back in they day!
Of course. It is a closely guarded Russian secret that I escaped by parachute. The mighty Putin went through great effort to fake my death.
That’s how extreme some Lemmy’s were for sure! lol
https://beehaw.org/post/19739290 sorry, I originally thought your comment was itt. ^
Yep! Lemmy loves to complain about the Democratic party, but as soon as ya mention third-party, you’re banned from everywhere for being a troll. Or Lemmy’s other fav insults: Nazi and Fascist. They’ll even say we’re paid to talk about third parties.
At this point, Lemmy is getting what they deserve. They’ll lost next presidential election to if they don’t wake the fuck up. :)
Lemmy: The time has come for a new third party! One made up of honest working class people, with infinity time and money between elections to campaign starting now. Oh also you need to go from 0% to 51% in one election cycle or just scrap the whole thing.
Yep, exactly this! lmao
It’s time for the US to form a centrist party, instead of people having to choose between far right, right, and far left.
Where is this “far left” you speak of?
Like where is any party saying to abolish private property, arrest the billionaires, and give the entire means of production to the working class?
Nancy Pelosi queen democrat literally said we live in a free market after making her 200 million playing stock market games.
Every single democrat, Bernie and AOC included, just gave full-throated support to Biden as he presided over the greatest wealth transfer in history.
The dems are the centrists. We need an actual left party.
Only with the extreme Overton shift in the US. Democrats may be more progressive than Republicans, but that’s really not saying much. Most actual Democrat policy is right of center, to the frustration of representatives like Sanders and AOC.
its already center right, no need for centrism.
They’re centered in terms of being centered against Republicans not left vs right
Still, what the USA needs is a left party, not a centrist party.
The Socialist party already exists?
Yep, and I was happy to vote for them. And will continue to do so. I have no clue why Lemmy refuses to. Practically everything the Socialist party stands for is what Lemmy says is what’s needed.
Yet come election time, Lemmy was all, “Vote Dems or you’re a traitor!”
Then sported a shocked pikachu face when they lost. lol
OK, then what the USA needs is a left party with funds and good advertising.
while the MSM is mostly owned by conservative, they will make sure any other party dont get press.
Only way to get reforms like that is to vote blue.
The US only has a far-right party and a further right party. When has the Democrats ever advocated for anything at all left of center, other than Bernie’s Medicare for All, which since most nations on earth have some government provided healthcare, is more centrist, than center-left.
And Bernie isn’t a Democrat.
What far left? You mean the “far left” that continues to support the surveillance state in the US or the “far left” that continues to support the total destruction of Gaza? I can keep going, those are only the first two that came to mind.
I don’t get this whole Gaza thing. Seems you Americans are distracted by Gaza well your own house is burning down around you. Take care of the house fire first.
While what’s happening in Gaza is horrific, it’s sadly far down on the list of grievances against the so called “far left” in the US. It was just one that came immediately to mind. They’ve also had no problem with “Citizens United” which allowed unlimited money in politics, they’ve continued to support the police state in the US, a lack of any meaningful movement on healthcare.
Joe Manchin is no longer a Senator but he used to be considered a “centrist”. He was a fucking coal barron who used his influence to get his daughter a made up MBA, she in turn was CEO of Mylan when they jacked up prices on the life saving Eli-pen.
Feckless.
Controlled opposition party strikes again!
The Republicans are the Sword, and the Democrats are the Shield.
They will end up in camps anyway. At least they will deserve it.
Anybody really know politics in detail and can explain their motive?
Are they afraid of retaliation in some form? What’s the rub?
They are republicans in disguise…
This is how Democracy works. We had an election and America chose Trump. Hard to believe but it happened. America comes together to let that person lead until the next election, this is how America is supposed to work. It is sad that so many people don’t understand how the system should work.
Yes America had an election and Trump won that election. I don’t think that is in dispute.
America comes together to let that person lead until the next election, this is how America is supposed to work
After 4 years straight of former-President Trump actively campaigning on a platform built exclusively on vilifying the sitting President, it’s time for unity ya’ll.
The Republican party may have transitioned its entire platform into “fuck the democrats” and actively supported an insurrection but now that they’re in power again we gotta stand together behind the convicted fascist, because apparently that’s how democracy works.
Democracy is dead in this country. Don’t believe me? Strange. How odd that elections are rigged when Republicans lose, but democracy is alive and well when they win.
I never thought the election was rigged. Political rivals talking shit about eachother isn’t anything new. I’m not sure exactly what you are crying about but the election is over.
Oh, okay. Political rivals talking shit. That’s what happened on January 6th.
Just the President that you want everyone to support, talking so much shit that people died. You didn’t think it was rigged, but you want everyone to support the man who spent 4 years calling it rigged, constantly saying that democracy is dead and only he could “fix” it. The same man who personally sent his supporters to “fight like hell” and assault police and threaten congress to “fix” it.
It’s so funny how people like you are so willing to support things you disagree with.
I think everyone should support whomever wins the election as that is the will of the people. That is how democracy works. Whoever wins in 2028 I will do my part to support, that is my responsibility as a citizen that supports democracy.
Right, and when the President commits crimes, attempts to overthrow his own elections, and says “you won’t need to vote anymore” that’s still democracy working as designed. Totally responsible to support that. For democracy.
Yes. America chose him. He won the election. The citizens selected Trump. The voice of democracy has spoken.
Lol. Enjoy playing the violin as the titanic sinks, I guess.
Sorry yall. It was Fetterman or Oz and we fucking ended up with both.
Hmmm, it’s like they’re all rich and know that in the end it’ll be fine for them under a fascist regime?
I’m not an American, but I have to give the Trump supporters they are right about one thing: the Democrats do not seem interested in fixing their problems. Trump’s just honest about it 🤷
It’s utterly baffling.
The Democrats fix the economic damage after every Republican administration. Reagan, W. Bush, Trump… going all the way back to Nixon and before.
One day people are going to realize this is just theatre. It’s a club with predetermined decisions, similar to WWE. None of them give a fuck about you.
People realized it over a decade ago.
So what shall we do about it?
Vote blue so much that they have to keep passing progressive reform like the always do when blue wins. They made the rules, all we need to do is make them play by them.
Vote blue so much that they have to keep passing progressive reform like the always do when blue wins.
If this is how you characterize the biden administration, you’re expecting people to be too easily content.
Nothing tells them to listen to your damands like just giving them more if they do the opposite of your demands.
This sounds like an abused spouse that is saying “just give him more love and he will change. He said he will. I just have to love him more. The bruises arent that bad. He didnt mean it.”
And like the abuser they are, the Democrats immediately turned on minorities whose loyalty they took for granted. They went racist against Latinos and Muslims, proving that they never cared to begin with.
You ask them to paint and take away their pigments and canvas. You display the result as proof that they’re no artist at all.
Cory Booker—New Jersey
Chris Coons—Delaware
Tammy Duckworth—Illinois
John Fetterman—Pennsylvania
Ruben Gallego—Arizona
Maggie Hassan—New Hampshire
Tim Kaine—Virginia
Andy Kim—New Jersey
Angus King—Maine (independent who caucuses with Democrats)
Amy Klobuchar—Minnesota
Gary Peters—Michigan
Jack Reed—Rhode Island
Jacky Rosen—Nevada
Jeanne Shaheen—New Hampshire
Elissa Slotkin—Michigan
Mark Warner—Virginia
shamelessly copied off the article
Primary every one of them.
What if the primary in question is rigged?
Delay, deny, _____?
We’re still counting fetterman as a Democrat? Aight.
Also wasn’t everyone fawning over Booker for the sit in DAYS AGO??
I heard that apparently (rumors) Fetterman might run in 2028 to give the illusion that we still have a democracy
He’ll probably show up to the debate in a bath robe.
Gallego: We ditched Sinema because of shit like this.
It’s rich v. poor, y’all.
And the Rich have convinced the Poor that Harris, the Tax-the-Rich Candidate, was the corrupt one.
I mean… It is until it isn’t. I wonder how many rich people were either tossed aside, or killed by Hitler.
This is not the same. Wealth is way more concentrated.
I get it. I too want this entire administration to burn, but at the same time, Perdue was a sitting Senator. A co-worker. Almost normal compared to Bondi or RFK Jr.
And this isn’t a cabinet member. It’s not like Perdue is going to make any real progress with China on anything.
China isn’t budging on shit.
Democrats reject this guy, a worse candidate is put forward next. Seems like a stupid hill to die on. They’re going to appoint somebody.
Edit: I didn’t know he’d be confirmed anyway. If true, then I agree a Democratic rejection out of principle would have been a better statement.
No, they’re not. What happened to Obama’s scotus pick proves you can gum up this process and prevent appointments. And you can do it without losing voters.
Democrats are choosing to aide the trump admin.
The senate rules changed, if I remember correctly in 2013 and 2017, so that presidential appointments and scotus judges could not be filibustered. A simple majority can change the rules for the next congress and the majority party is Republican and the next congress will either be a Democrat majority or it will be a full on dictatorship.
Nobody is voting for another year and a half. And hardly anyone for another three and a half years. Democrats need to pick the battles that matter.
Democrats need to pick the battles that matter.
And by an astounding coincidence, none do.
Plenty do. There is another budget vote in less than half a year.
Oh cool. Like the continuing resolution they caved on.
Cynicism like this is why humanity is doomed. Or am I misreading you and you actually think things can (if not will) get better?
Let me get this clearly: because if they fight back, maga will be even nastier, so Dems did the right thing to save us from a worse outcome?
Well fuck me, I’ve been at unfair to them. I owe them an apology.
That’s not what I said. There are better ways to fight.
Fight the turly terrible candidate choices, not the ones who you might actually have a chance of working productively with.
Chuck Schumer is abysmal and needs to step down, and he was wrong about the budget. But the essence of his argument has some truth - politics is a two-way street. In the rare case where there is a possibility of cooperation, that sets a better standard and will likely be more effective than endless partisanship.
Fight the turly terrible candidate choices, not the ones who you might actually have a chance of working productively with.
Things centrists never say about progressives. Because centrists only have intentions of working with their republican buddies to accomplish their mutual goals.
I think you’re being understandably but uncessarily cynical for the purposes of this conversation.
I proudly call myself a far-leftist. Even a “woke” one. But victory for the ideals that drive us will not come from endless othering of those who we disagree with. Perfect is the enemy of the good, so the saying goes. I would say it’s now the enemy of even just a little bit better as opposed to so much worse.
With that being said, we should never compromise on expressing what we actually believe. I want universal basic income, guaranteed minimum income according to a livable wage, weath taxes, and much more aggressive income taxation of the 1% and 0.1%. I want universal healthcare, open borders, and end to private prisons. But fuck me if I won’t vote to make what social security we do have just a little bit better.
As politicians and lawmakers, we need to be the bigger party in the room that doesn’t stoop to their level.
I know right now things demand radical defence of democracy, but that doesn’t happen by politicians giving up what little power and platform they might have. They can go to work when they’re not out on the streets with the protestors.
I think you’re being understandably but uncessarily cynical for the purposes of this conversation.
Every time I think I’m too cynical, democrats prove me wrong. They don’t get to come back from supporting a genocide.
I proudly call myself a far-leftist. Even a “woke” one.
But?
But victory for the ideals that drive us will not come from endless othering of those who we disagree with.
Oh yeah. Wouldn’t want to other those people who carry swastika flags and chant “Jews will not replace us” after all, they’re the only demographic that matters to the democratic party, and they’re willing to throw all of us under the bus for a 1% chance at getting a single nazi vote. You’re bus fodder just like me and don’t you forget it. The femtosecond republicans express the slightest displeasure at your existence, you’ll be under the bus with all the disposables you don’t consider worth defending because it might other some contemptible nazi.
With that being said, we should never compromise on expressing what we actually believe.
With every betrayal, democrats converge on expressing what they actually believe.
I want universal basic income, guaranteed minimum income according to a livable wage, weath taxes, and much more aggressive income taxation of the 1% and 0.1%. I want universal healthcare, open borders, and end to private prisons.
There is no major party that does not fight against everything you claim to stand for here.
As politicians and lawmakers, we need to be the bigger party in the room that doesn’t stoop to their level.
We’re dealing with nazis. You don’t win over nazis by appeasement. You don’t win them over with magnanimity. They do not want to parlay. They want you dead.
I know right now things demand radical defence of democracy, but that doesn’t happen by politicians giving up what little power and platform they might have.
Then maybe they should stop giving up whatever power they have every time they have the opportunity to do so.
How would you deal with these Nazis and other fellow Americans who you disagree with? Let’s say you’re the new president and your party controls both houses of government.
Trump is allowing people to be disappeared to El Salvador. Would you do the same to these people you call Nazis? What about the 45 million or so people who voted for this shit?
I agree the political situation sucks. But solutions aren’t easy, and eventually, at the end of the day, we have to be united or there is only war and violence forever.
Fight the turly terrible candidate choices, not the ones who you might actually have a chance of working productively with.
This makes absolutely no sense, why not fight both?
Is there a fight limit you don’t want them to waste on small fries? Or is their energy limited due to exhaustion from all their paid appearances and campaigning tours.
Name one good reason why they shouldn’t be fighting ever single battle!
Why fight when (a) it’s not going to change anything and (b) winning the fight gets you a worse outcome.
If it isn’t going to change anything but there’s a reason to fight on principle, by all means. But fighting for its own sake makes you look stupid and immature.
Someone has to be ambassador to China.
It’s probably going to be someone most on the left so not want.
So you choose the one that you can stomach while you have a vote.
Just to note, but even Republicans stonewalled every confirmation.
Technically, if the Democrats reject this guy he still gets confirmed. If every Democrat, Independent, and also 3 Republicans reject this guy, he still gets confirmed. As was the case with Pete Hegseth, whom is way worse than Purdue in every way.
That detail I didn’t know. If there was a chance to act on principle here I agree. Why not?
