Windows is so full of stupid little shit that should have been fixed years - if not decades - ago. Sleep mode broken, folder customize options don’t apply to subfolders despite offering that choice, the OP. Sigh.
Microsoft should be responsible for when I close my laptop and then it starts a fucking fire in my backpack. that shit should have been fixed YEARS ago.
Set it to hibernate when you close the lid. It’s a full shutdown so the sleep timers don’t run, but the ram contents are kept, so it’s only slightly slower than starting from sleep.
That should be the default, but OEMs are weird.
I switched to Linux and haven’t had a problem since
I had to disable the power button on my tower. By default, if you click “shutdown” the computer will freak out about the possibility someone might lose work even if nothing is happening but if your cat bumps the physical power button, even in the middle of a game, the whole thing shuts down faster than than those safety table saws that blow themselves up to save your finger.
Just came to leave an image of a cute cartoon penguin, don’t mind me.
But club penguin shut down 8 years ago
?
Update and shut down and they will restart, update, then shut down, restarting is part of the process.
The issue i have is the very, very frequent update. The only time i face this kind of frequent update is with unstable build of software and game, which kinda says a lot about the windows team.
It’s that almost every time for me at least on insider build I click update and shutdown. Wake up in morning and PC is on lock screen not shutdown
It definitely done it once or twice a year or two ago in win10, but not that frequent. Never on win11
Is once a month “very, very frequent”?
Yes. When it’s intrusive
I last updated last friday or so, now they bitch about update again, which i already delayed for a few days. It’s definitely not once a month in my experience. Windows 11 btw.
With Windows 10, Microsoft started performing a monthly cumulative updating schedule. Every second Tuesday of the month is “patch day” and a new monthly cumulative update is made available.
There are exceptions to this, for security and bug fixes that can’t wait until the next monthly round-up. So perhaps this month was one of those? But trends are that updates are monthly. I can see it being perceived as more often, as the update is forced onto us, with a reboot, which can be frustrating.
Azure servers now support reboot-less updating, hopefully that makes its way to consumer products, but who knows.
Microsoft has always had a bad rep for their OS being full of holes and getting exploited. However some of this was due to users not updating. Microsoft would patch an issue, but huge swaths of unpatched Windows machines would be exploited and used as botnets. I think the forced updates were in response to this situation. Not that I agree with it.
I’m amazed at how after 50 years, over 100,000 top-tier software engineers, and $3,500,000,000,000, Microsoft are still so bad at making operating systems.
It’s almost as if Capitalist rhetoric about innovation is bullshit.
I have never had my computer completely restart after selecting “Update and shutdown”, sure, it will reboot once or twice during the update cycle, but it has always ended with a full shutdown.
And here am I, never experienced Windows to “just shut down”. It always restarted in the old days when I used to use Windows.
This is it. OP is just dumb. “omg it’s restarting when it said it was at less than 100% and I can’t fathom why that would be, I told it to shut down reeeEEEEE”. I used to think this was job security (“my system got corrupted and it’s totally not because I’m an idiot”) but as the years go on I yearn to simply drop filing cabinets on their heads.
no, this used to be the case but i can now guarantee that it (always?) just restarts and stays on the login screen. I’ve had this happen multiple times that i know it’s not a fluke.
X
IT technician here, I have a decade worth of experience dealing with computers and users, using Windows XP, 7, 10 and 11.
I have remoted into user computer on every continent except south America and Antarctica. I have used keyboard layouts from UK, US, DE, DK, NO, FI, FR, ES, NL, SE, TR, JP and probably one or two I have forgotten.
The only time I have seen the behavior described here was when using a third party patching system that fails to unlock bitlocker.
yeah i don’t care about your experience, i care about mine. i literally use the update and shutdown option from the start menu and it consistently ends the process on my login screen after a reboot without shutting down. the fact that you think this isn’t even possible only tells me you’re shit at your job.
Damn, you go straight for the insult?
Not only do you go straight for the insult, but you also make claims that I have said things that I never did.
I never claimed that it was impossible (if I did, quote me on that, and I’ll correct my mistake).
I did add an X to my post to show that I doubted that a normal update did this, which is resonable as I have only heard about this here on Lemmy.
You calling me shit at my job because I haven’t found or heard about an obscure problem tells me that lack the knowledge and skill to make any determination about my job skill.
the X is the insult. I’m telling literally what happens on my own comouter and you’re here like “umm doubt it you probably forgot how to shut down your system after 30+ years”
i refrained from saying fuck off because that’s my normal response to shit like this.
As an IT technician, I have learned that everyone lies, weather they mean to or not, that is the entire reason of the “IT Aura” where shit just starts to work just because IT is watching the user.
You may very well be doing it exactly right, but Microsoft decided to change how that task is done properly, technically still making it a user issue.
The use of “X” was meant as a light hearted way of telling you that I believed something was left out of the explanation, this does not mean that it was done deliberately by you.
Shit happens, I don’t blame you for Microsoft’s incompetence, but I do blame you for your insults, claiming that I am shit at my job because I haven’t seen an obscure issue that could be a normal missunderstanding of the normal update process, is, frankly, fucking stupid.
Going forward, I recommend you to not take memes so litterarly, remember that everyone has haf a different life and experiences, so step back from insults.
Oh, and your “fuck off” paragraph?
I am a resonable person, and never even considered posting that, even after being insulted by you.
I have to use Windows for work. A few days ago I pressed the button to update and shut down as I started preparing to leave. I went away for a bit and when I came back to get my stuff, the computer was back at the login screen. It updated and restarted. Windows really does do that. I hate it.
I don’t think I’ve ever had that happen - maybe it’s a group policy thing or something?
Probably just misclicked and blames it on the OS.
“this has never happened to me, therefore this can’t happen”
As an IT technician with a decade worth of user support and systems admin experience.
This is by far the most probable explanation.
I am not saying it 100% is the problem, just that user error is by far the most common issue I encounter.
I’m also an it technician with over a decade of experience, and I’ve seen this first hand, on multiple occasions.
I agree PICNIC is the goto in this scenario; it’s not like shutdown commands are new, so why would it not work as intended? it was my initial assumption when faced with these reports; but having seen this occur multiple times, I can confirm it isn’t. My running theory is it’s KB related, as the issue is intermittent by device (though consistent with an affected device… as in the device will exhibit this behaviour every time). It’s also unique to windows 11.
so with that logic, I’ve misclicked like 50 times and never actually clicked the update and shutdown option? Yeah no, the option is two buttons above the update and restart one, so I’ve only ever accidentally misclicked around once or twice.
It’s a real problem and it does happen. Stop blaming users for bad software
GP is a good shout. I see this issue occur intermittently at work; and whilst I haven’t checked our GPOs recently; I’m fairly certain the incident is intermittent amongst machines running the same policies (IE: a finance dept of 50 machines may see 10 exhibit this behaviour).
I’ve also seen it occur on home PCs. The only constant trait among them that I can determine is the OS (always 11). I just assumed it was introduced by some KB somewhere down the line or something like that.
Ah, I’m not running 11 yet. I’m one of the holdouts still on 10, I upgraded as soon as it was available and then restored from an image to 10. I fear I need to get pushed to it at EoL, since my home rig has two sound cards, a keyboard, and a mouse that are configurable only in windows. But fuck, I’m dreading the day, as I hate the start menu, the possibility of ads in explorer, the context menu is stupid and is not accessibility-friendly, I can’t keep the taskbar at the top, the settings are getting more obtuse…
So yeah that could explain why I’ve not seen it before myself :p
It looks like people do not understand the windows update process where it restarts and then updates some more and shutdown after that.
That’s always so annoying, because Windows isn’t my default boot entry, so I need to babysit its “totally not a reboot” update.
I somewhat get it - end as much processes as possible, apply everything that is possible, then restart and apply the remainder. My pet peeve is just that it should automatically shut down after applying the updates instead of staying at the lock screen, when I say install and shutdown…
it should automatically shut down after applying the updates
Okay, that part it does for me though. That’s extra annoying for you then.
apply everything that is possible, then restart and apply the remainder
Yeah on one hand I get the concept, on the other macOS and Linux manage without, and I don’t really remember older Windows doing this either, so I wonder if there is a real reason why it’s needed, or they just engineered themselves into a bad corner…
I wonder if there is a real reason why it’s needed, or they just engineered themselves into a bad corner…
Same. They do have some features that sound kinda sane and may play a role here - like the system field are write protected. Programs can request to run a script on start-up to modify them before the write-protection kicks in. Also they might want/think it’s a good idea to run some part of the updates on the new kernel version instead of the old one or maybe do a cleanup on a successful boot or so. Also, maybe they want to force a reboot straight to Windows before the update is finished to prevent problems with dual boot - that could rule out “install and shutdown and only continue with the remainder on the next boot”. Also it might be for convenience, as the next boot is as fast as usual and you do not see 10 mins of “applying updates” when you didn’t calculate with that.
But if you offer “install and shutdown”, it should shutdown in the end and not stay on the lock screen and hopefully go into sleep mode…
Why the hell does my PC turn itself on from hibernate when there is an update pending? Fuck you windows.
Going to switch to Linux as soon as I stop being lazy… any day now.
Today could be the day! I bet 90% of Lemmy would at least try to help.
At least after we battled over which distro is best.
Fair point.
Or some BSD?
For beginners?
I find the installer pretty intuitive; Also: RTFM.
On a more serious note: I’d recommend a beginner Linux Mint
It really is an issue of laziness. I dont want to have to re-mod New Vegas.
I’ve never done it, but I assume Vortex Mod Manager can make a mod list for you that you can export.
Word of warning though, there aren’t any good native Linux mod managers yet, though nexus is working on one. It’s possible to get Vortex to work, but it does take some effort. I don’t think there’s anything online on how to make it work (last I searched people just said it wouldn’t), but it can work. Message me if you need some help with that.
Appreciate the offer. I followed some mod guide, that involved a TON of steps beyond just a mod manager. Goal was to modernize the game a little while keeping the content vanilla. Im assuming because it is such an old game lots of steps were required. It’s been a while since I did it.
There are no linnux mod managers in general?
Not for most games. Usually modding is just putting the files in the right folder, so it isn’t a big deal and you don’t need a manager, but it is good when you have 100+ mods.
Again though, Vortex is usable with WINE, just not ideal. For anyone curious, you need to install it into the prefix with the game and, IIRC, create a virtual link to the mod directory, or something like that. It’s been a while since I’ve done it. It’s not that difficult but, from my experience, you should expect to have a warning or two that you just have to ignore.
This is the new app that will be replacing Vortex, and it works on all platforms natively. It only officially supports a handful of games though, like Stardew Valley and Cyberpunk, for now.
Because you have configured it to install updates when you are not using your PC and windows is leveraging a system wake timer. If Linux was configured to do the same it would be no different.
So, I have every conceivable setting off for automatically installing updates. It won’t let me not do it.
I don’t know about others, but I’ve tried and failed to stop my pc waking from sleep.
At some point, it just stops providing wake reason codes. It just wakes up. The system doesn’t know or tell why.
Hibernation has never failed me, at least.Try running this in Powershell, after running this it should only wake from either a wake timer and maybe wake on lan.
powershell -Command “powercfg /devicequery wake_armed | ForEach{ powercfg /devicedisablewake $_ }”
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I just did the switch last night! I don’t regret it yet and doubt I will. You should give it a shot.
You can configure it. Whats worse, my current PC actually allows every device to wake up my PC. My old PC didn’t allowed it and only allowed the power button and WoL. You can turn it off for each device (there is no bulk option, thanks MS), but when you plug in a new device… Recently I forgot to unplug my mouse from charging and my PC started right away.
I have no problem that there is this option. Might be handy in the right situation. I have a problem that you can’t configure it easily. But I guess hibernation is something that Devs forget these days. I have a few programs that don’t play along nicely.
Here’s a one liner that disables wake on all devices in your PC.
powershell -Command “powercfg /devicequery wake_armed | ForEach{ powercfg /devicedisablewake $_ }”
Doesn’t work
Invalid parameter --. I have zero clue where it gets the--. But the issue would be new devices or other ports. I did this manually once, needed to unplug my PC and needed to do this once again. At least there seems to be an option doing this in bulk but it’s not optimal.
Unpopular opinion: The most-used operating system in the world must automatically apply security updates, eventually even overriding user preference if people never restart.
Right now it’s Windows. If someday it’s Ubuntu, they should do it too. If they don’t, we’d see giant botnets of every computer that people don’t want to update, all compromised by exploits.
To be clear, this doesn’t excuse MS for abusing this update cycle to push shitty products or AI features.
for me, a good test of whether i own something or not is to see if your device forces you to update. I’m sure 90% people using computers understand the security implications of not updating and not rebooting, they just have work they need to do now and rebooting the computer would make it go away.
we really need to stop babying users. If they fuck their own system up, it’s on them. give them warnings, sure. Give them heads up. but don’t take it into your own hands to protect someone who doesn’t want protecting.
If users cared about security or privacy, even in the slightest, they’d be using Linux. That’s the other few percent. Ubuntu Livepatch solves any problem from automatic updates, I think Linux will eventually support this and then automatic updates by default. But on Windows? Not a chance.
You cannot live patch everything and also linux doesn’t run everything
I think you have far too much faith in the average user. The average user just uses their computer for email, social media, and YouTube. The average user panics when their Google Chrome shortcut disappears from their desktop, because they don’t know how to open it otherwise. The average user doesn’t even know what a botnet is, or why updating would help prevent them.
And the bigger problem is that a compromised device doesn’t only affect the compromised device. It can potentially spread to other devices on a network, steal info from anyone who interacts with the user, or become part of a botnet which is used in attacks elsewhere. Forcing the average user to update is like requiring vaccinations. We do it because it helps protect everyone; not just the one person who was inoculated.
I’m sure 90% people using computers understand the security implications of not updating and not rebooting,
Deranged. 9% is probably higher than reality. 0.9% maybe.
Also you’re responding to a comment about widespread collective damage as though only a few individuals would be hurt.
Every single yearly security training at work talks about keeping devices up to date. We get quizzed on it. Every place i’ve been at has talked about keeping your device up to date. I’m talking since school up to my degree at university (~10 years).
if at this point people don’t know that you should update, it’s on them for being ignorant about it or on them for not doing so.
firstly, you’re assuming everyone works in an office.
then, that those lessons stick.
then, that malware only affects those who essentially opt into it.
All of these are beyond-stupid assumptions.
PS. not one security training I’ve had did more than just mention in passing updating your device, if even that. Because guess what, IT departments don’t give a choice. They manage that and force-install updates.
Your other weak-ass assumption is that work lessons (if even applied at work) also come home.
Yeah dude, you’re just wrong in your thinking. Top to bottom.
maybe this is a xkcd 2501 moment and if it is, it makes me feel very depressed that people can be this stupid
just looked that # up. Yes, it is. People are very stupid, but in this case it’s more of 1) a case of needing to know. many people do not need to know how to maintain a computer; many don’t even own a desktop these days and other systems do many auto-updates. and 2) again, these bad practices affect other people who do properly update their machine. We don’t live in a vacuum.
Story time. I used to work for an IT service for businesses. We also offered such basic security trainings (how to not get fished by mails, keeping workstations up to date, do not insert USB drives some stranger handed you, that stuff). We had one customer, big company, several branches all over the country, even some abroad. They booked our training once a year for each branch office in our local region, six offices and a couple dozen office workers attending each time.
We had to automate reboots. First, you get an information there’s a necessary update pending that needed a reboot. You could push that reboot a week down, then it got enforced. We had several tickets each month about that. We also had to restore systems twice in the two and a half years I worked there from backups due to ransomware, and other, mostly minor security incidents about once a month.
I mean, it’s the same situation as vaccine mandates. You’re hoping that it’s a perfect system of karma that reflects upon the user, but it’s not. Someone practices bad security or bad personal health, and it might not necessarily be them that suffers the most. (Botnet victims come in wide varieties)
I think owning your own device is a great ideology and I want to promote it however possible; I just don’t feel comfortable pushing that over general worldwide computer safety.
Then where do you draw the line?
The meme isn’t complaining about auto-updates. The meme is complaining that “Update and Shutdown” doesn’t actually turn off the PC when it’s done updating.
Ohhh, I didn’t even realize that was a thing. Makes more sense now. I should probably shut down my PC more often…
I’m using windows. Istg every update I get fucks something up. and no matter how hard I try to disable windows updates, even forcibly, they keep coming back
Has that ever helped with massive Windows botnets?
Oh no, grandma’s Windows box she lets your weird cousin use is sending out shady Russian personals hookup spam again! 💀
Switch your (grand)parents to Linux Mint today!
The switch on the back of the PC is there for a reason!
For going between 110V and 220V?
You americans and your weird everything
Idk how it’s working for you guys, but I’ve not once had it actually shut down after clicking update and shut down. It always restarts myb once or twice and finishes at the lock screen, it just doesn’t shut down. I always have to manually turn it off after it finishes.
I think it depends from the motherboard. My 8th gen Intel Lenovo always update and reboot (and get to the lock screen) when I say update and shutdown while a gigabyte 6th gen Intel always update and shutdown (one reboot during the update install)
And if you dual boot and have Linux set as main, “update and shutdown” means “reboot to Linux”
Dunno what to tell you, man. Update and shut down always works perfectly for me. It updates, restarts to finish the update, then shuts down. Works every time.
The only thing I can think of is that you’re being impatient and manually shutting he machine down after the restart, instead just letting the OS do its thing.
I’m most definitely not interrupting it, I can go away, do something else, and it will still be on the lock screen after rebooting. I’d then have to click on shut down again.
The only other thing I can think of is that you’re dual-booting and Windows isn’t playing nice with GRUB as usual.
If that’s the case, well then this is why I gave Linux and Windows their own dedicated drives, with a switch installed on my case to physically select the drive. That way they can both have their own bootloaders so Windows can’t get in the way. They’re not even aware that the other OS exists.
Yeah no I’ve never dual booted on these devices.
Yep my work laptop is win11, this happens every time. I just wait till the end of the day, click update and shut down, let the dog out and then give her breakfast (I work nights) then go back and shut down from lock screen.
Meanwhile on my Linux laptop, “downloading critical system files” SUDO shut down, “whatever you say boss” and 10 seconds later it’s off.
I’ve found that if I click “update and shutdown” and hold the power button it shuts down, the update process is even quicker this way /S
But for real, I’ve been doing this for almost a year now I. Will. Not. Wait. I am going home now
i click shut down, close my laptop, then the next day it turns out it never shut down because my pdf viewer was still open
I don’t make it to the next day. I hear the fan running full blast in my bag while it commits seppuku.
mine goes into sleep mode so it doesn’t really make any sound
It’s a corporate laptop, so no telling what it’s trying to do.
probably collecting data about your daily routine
ah yes i remember this frustration before i changed operating systems. now i have a whole bunch of new frustrations but this ain’t one of them 😎 i use debian btw
Frustrated with debian? I cannot imagine…
I have been frustrated with myself tho, when i have learned how easy something i was struggeling with was.
Restarts into Grub which autos to Linux and when I go back to Windows it’s all pissy at me.
Exactly this! Having to wait for the actual update to finish and finally let me select the option in the GRUB menu.
There is an option to default to the GRUB entry you chose last. I didn’t know that either until Manjaro used it.
Will have a look, thanks!
It’s why they remove grub with their own thing during windows updates
Update and Shutdown -> go and make tea -> Linux lock screen -> 😐
Windows really dosn’t want to be on my system.
Then you should obey its wishes.
Well, that’s a first. The usual way is for Windows to break the Linux install every time it does anything.
Somehow I learned how to install my systems without windows doing that.
I’m guessing you have different drives, instead of using partitions. Windows only breaks bootloaders when it’s sharing a drive.
Nope.
- Install windows on clean disk
- Install Linux with custom partitions
Add 3 new partitions (/boot, /, swap) - Enable os-prober for grub
- Set grub as boot in BIOS
Never had problem with windows nuking the bootloader. It never knows it exists.
- Windows update intentionally bricks GRUB.
- Delete Windows.
Every time! Then the next time you boot windows for some reason, it will finish the updates and then fucking shuts down.
Lucky you
Well, it is at least in part how many linux distros configure Grub, it can be set up to boot the last selected OS, which I think should be the default… I changed it on all of my dual boot systems, though I haven’t been using Windows all that much lately, so it hasn’t been all that big of a deal for me.
I just wish that Windows hadn’t changed the default update config to restart no matter which option is selected, since it makes that situation soooo much more annoying.
buttons that don’t work? buttons that do nothing? butrons that lie?? (rhetoric)
holds the power button
Next boot: Updating…
First thing in the morning and now you’ve missed your own meeting.
So literally no downside.
Oh no, guess we will have to circle back(they were always going to circle back regardless of attendance)
