Don’t speak I’ll of steam and billionaire Gabe around here. The steam bros are gonna crucify you for daring to even think ill of THEIR corporation and THEIR billionaire who of course loves and cares for them all.
Edit: there it is 🤣
Your mom is wrong. You are not even slightly cool.
This thread makes me wish we could have a discussion community where we exclude Americans. Even the left are nuts over there now. Nothing but name calling and shit slinging. Glad your country is drowning
Cry moar, I’ll never see your blocked ass again :-)
Don’t just review bomb it
Report it to steam as SPYWARE, with the little flag icon on the product page
🏴☠️ is free and without shenanigans.
giving root level access to russian crackers instead
If you go to the right sites you won’t get any malicious code. Stop spreading corpo propaganda.
it isn’t propaganda.
it’s been a while since I’ve used windows, but I remember having to give administrator privileges to software installers, whether they are from legitimate vendors or from ripping groups with modified code
Thats a windows thing so it can put files in “protected” folders like program files
What’s with this anyway? A remnant from the single-user days?
Some software installers still ask if I want to install for all users, which require elevated permissions, or only for me, which don’t. In that last option it will not prompt for elevated permissions as it will use one of my user’s folders which I have already all permissions for, obviously.
It’s a security measure that’s half assed. People are so used to it they just click allow but don’t actually look at the prompt anymore. Like I see a lot of people do with cookies on websites.
There is nuance here. Not every crack is malicious but you have to assume they all are because some of them are. Trusting a source is irrelevant. Many security products will falsely tag cracked software as dangerous just because it’s cracked, not because it found a specific bit of nasty code, and this feeds the idea that you can’t believe when people tell you cracked software is unsafe. But there are many truly bad cracks out there. When in doubt, don’t trust it.
And you should always doubt free shit.
Same is true of any software these days, not just cracks…
This is true. Even projects with good reputations get caught up in shit like the XZ back door in Linux.
If you haven’t read up on that fiasco, you really should look into it. It got way too far before being caught all because people suck and ruin things for others.
Damn, its such a shame you can’t run a crack in a vm, or on linux via WINE and Proton, aw shucks.
and then run whatever modified code it just deployed on the host, yea
A game with a malicious crack that can escape a VM running on Windows and get to the main OS?
Sure, possible, but not by any means common.
A game with a malicious crack made for Windows that can… do anything nefarious when you’re running it on linux via WINE and Proton?
… Theoretically possible, but I’ve never heard of this actually occuring.
The same, but also inside another linux OS inside of a Bottle or Distrobox… or full VM… all running on a linux system that is significantly atomized with a read only core-os?
… At that point I am quite doubtful anyone is bothering to make a malicious crack that capable… when 99% of the existing game trainers and hacks that you can find or buy online… only work on Windows.
The crowd of people making game exploits and cheat engines… and the crowd of people making malicious game cracks… that venn diagram is almost a circle… and 99% of these people do not bother to ‘support’ linux, in anyway, at all, with anything they do.
Is using any random cracked software ever 100% safe? No.
But neither is say, using a Windows system, with 0 cracks or hacks… but with a MSFT trusted vendor’s 3rd party anti malware software… where said trusted vendor is allowed to push an unverified update to their kernel level anti-malware system… that is actually malformed, and then knocks out about 1/4 of every enterprise Windows PCs on Earth for 2 weeks.
I sometimes wonder what will happen when EAC, that has root access to millions of PCs, gets compromised or has grunty employee and pushes malicious update
It probably spys on you already.
The company that makes the Overwolf game launcher is an Israli cyber security company that gets money from the US.
Tencent spys on people for China through a lot of the games they own.
Holy fuck I did not know about Overwolf. That’s the last time I download something from my, apparently, dipshit friend (no, this is not the only stupid thing he’s done).
I think it’s kind of ironic you call your friend apparently a dipshit for not knowing something you also didn’t know… pot calling the kettle black & all.
from my, apparently, dipshit friend (no, this is not the only stupid thing he’s done).
Reading comprehension is hard. I get it.
You literally posted the answer to your question. Here is an expansion of the details.
Due to Steam’s tos updates a few months ago, isn’t take-two opening itself up to a massive lawsuit?
No idea, but I think it would be funny, so I’m all for it and hope you are right.
Hm… Ok. Thats crazy. Someone wants to create a new branch of income it seems.
Thats a fucking shame. Now I need to reconsider my plans to buy Borderlands4.
But how will they do it? Which information is gathered from which source? Most of my accounts only hold as little informations as possible. Also my Os knows nothing about me. My MS account neither.
On the other hand my steam 2FA need some mobile information.
Checkout Jump Ship? It’s some weird borderlands, Star citizen, (insert other generic shooter) type game. Pretty neat, was recommended to me by a shooter fanatic friend of mine. I trust his shooting game opinion
oh cool, I can see that it’s similar Borderlands by the screenshots, and I can see that it’s like Star Citizen because it’s not actually released yet and they’re taking money for early access.
Hah exactly :D
I haven’t read the new TOS but if this review is correct it looks like a GDPR nightmare for them. Good luck to them explaining why they need to collect all that personal data.
Do we know this is a thing in the EU?
I just read the german version and compared them a little. (https://www.take2games.com/privacy/de/) Its about the same. But ist also reads fairly normal like any other privacy policy. I also think its in line with EU law. The collected data always relates to whatever TakeTwo service you use and whatever data you provide voluntarily or technically by using it. Thats fine by EU law.
They added spyware to it.
Here is excerpt from the tos, shared by user in steam reviews of the game.
important Info in Terms of Service:
• Mods are a bannable offense • Display of Cheats/Exploits is bannable • Forced arbitration clause and a waiver of class action and jury trial rights for all users residing in the United States and any other territory other than Australia, Switzerland, The United Kingdom, or The Territories of The European Economic Area • You can be banned for using a VPN while connecting to online servers • Cannot access game content on a Virtual PC
Collected Data Types: • Identifiers / Contact Information: Name, user name, gamertag, postal and email address, phone number, unique IDs, mobile device ID, platform ID, gaming service ID, advertising ID (IDFA, Android ID) and IP address • Protected Characteristics: Age and gender • Commercial Information: Purchase and usage history and preferences, including gameplay information • Billing Information: Payment information (credit / debit card information) and shipping address • Internet / Electronic Activity: Web / app browsing and gameplay information related to the Services; information about your online interaction(s) with the Services or our advertising; and details about the games and platforms you use and other information related to installed applications • Device and Usage Data: Device type, software and hardware details, language settings, browser type and version, operating system, and information about how users use and interact with the Services (e.g., content viewed, pages visited, clicks, scrolls) • Profile Inferences: Inferences made from your information and web activity to help create a personalized profile so we can identify goods and services that may be of interest • Audio / Visual Information: Account photos, images, and avatars, audio information via chat features and functionality, and gameplay recordings and video footage (such as when you participate in playtesting) • Sensitive Information: Precise location information (if you allow the Services to collect your location), account credentials (user name and password), and contents of communications via chat features and functionality.
I wouldnt touch anything this company has produced.
They added spyware to it.
No, they didn’t.
Just because something sounds outrageous, doesn’t mean it is true.
Borderlands 2 hasn’t been updated since 2022:
Borderlands - Last updated: 3 August 2016 Borderlands 2 - Last updated: 4 August 2022 Borderlands 3 - Last updated: 8 August 2024
No Borderlands titles include anti-cheat: https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=borderlands
Here is another person, 7 years ago trying the exact same outrage-based engagement farming strategy of linking a TOS update and implying a nefarious intent: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8naopt/take_two_a_spyware_apocalypse/ It’s exactly the same “Take two is spying on you!!!” content and yet, none of the Borderlands games have added spyware and none have added kernel anti-cheat.
Also, if you read the 2018 and 2025 TOS you will notice notice that the information that they collect in the 2025 TOS ( https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/ ) is exactly the same as it was in 2018.
TL;DR - Just because you read it on the Internet, doesn’t mean it is true.
I sometimes wonder what I casually believe because I read it while scrolling for something interesting. I don’t have the time or inclination to fact check every single detail I come across.
I’m sure I believe a lot of nonsense from reading the Internet.
That’s okay, we’re just human. The problem is when people try to ‘inform’ people of things that they ‘know’ from reading social media. That’s how these situations are created, so many people believe this because so many other people believe it and then repeat it as fact without themselves ever checking.
It’s like a feedback loop of ignorance, caused entirely by people who care more about getting social credit for talking and less about saying things that are true.
Interesting. So the terms of service have not changed, and yet people are saying that they did. I wonder if there are criticisms that are still valid. For example, the terms of service that you linked:
- do not let me use a VPN (¶6.4)
- do not let me use glitches (¶6.4)
- do not let me own the copy of the game that I bought, but instead give me a limited license to it (¶2.1-2.2)
- do not inform me about future updates to their terms of service (¶10.2)
- force me to enter arbitration and do not let me be part of a class action lawsuit or have a trial by jury (¶17.5)
- link to their privacy policy, which:
- does not let me opt out of having my data bought, merged, and sold through ad networks or data brokers (§ Categories of Information Collected, § How We Use Information and Our Legal Grounds, § Sources of Information We Collect, and § When We Share Information ¶ 5— all sources combined)
- does not attempt to deliberately minimize data collection to protect my data. With the only exception of children’s data, their purposes are extremely vague (§ How We Use Information and Our Legal Grounds, as well as the entire document, because they do not attempt to do this in their privacy policy)
- does not attempt to anonymize my data (I cannot provide a citation because there is no attempt to do this in their privacy policy)
- does not specify the purposes of gathering and using information about any installed application on my device (§ Categories of Information Collected— this is especially worrying)
- does not let me opt-out of data collection categories for specific purposes (cannot give a direct citation because they simply do not do it; instead, they wrote vague types of information they collect —such as “details about… other information related to installed applications” in § Categories of Information Collected, as well as vague purposes in § How We Use Information)
So, coming back to the original claim you were debunking:
They added spyware to it.
Your response was
No, they didn’t.
And I agree with you, now that I have read their terms of service and their privacy policy. Of course, we’re assuming that they haven’t changed their terms of service. If we assume that, then their spyware clauses weren’t added. No. They were always there. They have always said that they gather “details about… other information related to installed applications” on my device for purposes that can include merging and selling my data to data brokers and ad networks.
The language about collecting and using data have been in TOSs for basically every online service since the early '00s.
I’m not saying that this is okay. The data that these services collect, which we’ve given them unlimited rights to, has only become more valuable and the incentives for these companies are always for them to gather more data about you.
You can use archive.org if you want to look at older policies from the same company. But, if you pull up any other game with an online component you will see that they all are essentially “Don’t cheat our services or hide your identity, We’re going to collect your data and use it how we want, and you have to enter into binding arbitration” with various levels of detail and verbosity.
If a game, application, device or EULA changes in a way you find unacceptable, after you’ve purchased it, you should be able to get your initial purchase price back. And if you paid with your data, you need to be able to demand they delete all your data. I think that law would be entirely reasonable and would do a lot of good.
- Did the EULA change? ✅
- Were all Take Two games automatically updated in secret and now hijack your machine with root access to spy on everything you do? ❌
- Do Take Two games contain code to report telemetry and user information(including application/system activity) to a home server? ✅
- Is this EULA change extraordinary and particularly egregious in comparison to others that most people have probably already agreed to? ❌(IMO)
- Are people riled up because e a YouTube video went a little viral and now they’re all playing telephone to the point where it’s now gotten to the point of random dumdums are review booming a 13 year old game claiming it’s turned into literal spyware? ✅(again, IMO)
- Should you be surprised by any of this if you’ve been even remotely paying attention for any period of the last 30-40 years? ❌
- Do we need more than just angry idiots in the battle against corpatocracy? ✅
We should be done coddling the late comers at this point. Yes welcome them and accept them, but at a certain point your level of ignorance became a detriment to your community and you should be made aware of that fact.
Its a bit more than that:
Precise location information? Wtf for?
Hyper Localized Advertising. Welcome to the future :(
I just saw an advertisement for a custom T-shirt:
“That’s right, I’m a December dad, who lives at 62a, with size 10 feet and prescription glasses…”/S
Would it shock you to know that ALL of these are in the Steam terms of service also?
The only really sus one to me is the forced arbitration clause, and Steam also had that til they were pressured to remove it by multiple legal cases, including a class action brought to them by Steam users just last September. It is only sus because it’s outdated - companies are generally removing them now rather than adding them. https://www.legal.io/articles/5540864/Valve-Removes-Mandatory-Arbitration-from-Steam-Subscriber-Agreement
RE: remaining top 5 bullet points, 3 of the remaining 4 bullet points are uncontroversial bullet points about anticheat. The fourth is banning modding, which is also just a heavy handed anticheat attempt, and not uncommon for online games to add to their ToS to allow banning at their discretion. Either way its clumsy at the least as some mods can be harmless eg HUD mods for colourblind people and deserves some negativity - but not to this level, given everything else is just so boilerplate.
Collected data types: these are all for if you buy stuff with a credit card / paypal / etc off 2k/parent company Take 2. Remember, they sell games with in-game purchases. They also have an app which has location permissions option which is what the precise location is about.
So yes - again, as OP said, this is nothing controversial if you have paid attention to ToS meaning and content over the past 20 years.
Aside from the forced arbitration crap - which Steam, Microsoft, Amazon, Lyft, Uber, Google, AT&T - and hundreds of other major companies all snuck into their ToS over the years, and many have now been legally pressured to remove by consumer rights group. That is stupid because it shows their legal team is behind the times, companies are mostly removing their forced arbitration clauses nowadays because it has been the cause of many lost class actions.
I just don’t understand anticheat or copy protection on PvE games. I can understand it if you don’t want to play against a cheater, but this is a cooperative shooter.
IIRC Borderlands 3 scales the value of loot to the game’s difficulty setting, with some mechanics aimed at encouraging players to join online coops at high difficulties in order to earn more valuable loot. I imagine cheats undermine that intent, and I also imagine borderlands 4 might be aiming at a pay to play scheme.
I’m guessing this EULA is being used for all their IP with the intent of taking advantage of it in the future.
See you’re looking at it from the point of view that it would serve the player experience, but that’s not what it’s for, it’s to mine your data
It’s for precedent on future games and to sneak in shit for later. Wittle down your expectations and privacy, make it “normal”.
