systemd cat and GNU cat hugging a Linux cat.
I suppose that would be Android, since that’s the only non systemd OS I use.
Same here. Has to be degoogled though.
I used to use AOSP without google apps. But I’m a bit less strict now, after I bricked a phone because I fucked up.
In terms of Linux, either Devuan sysvinit, Void, or Alpine.
I am also a fan of BSD.
systemd is great
Everybody gangsta until
A stop job is running for…That’s not necessarily the fault of systemd.
Anyway that is been fixed on modern systems. I haven’t seen that in years.
That’s not necessarily the fault of systemd.
No, but the error being hard to debug, and not being able to cancel the timeout as it’s occurring, is though.
Anyway that is been fixed on modern systems
No, I’ve had it happen more recently (I wanna say less than a month ago) with network mounts and random systemd controlled desktop processes that refuse to die.
postmarketOS, though they are in the process of migrating to systemd. Not that I personally mind terribly much, even if it feels like a bit of an odd choice. So maybe I should say Alpine.
That was one of the things that made me ultimately switch back to lineage, though mostly because none of their documentation is updated to refelct the change, wwhich makes it really hard to fix a lot of things.
Void, because it works really well on my super low-resource chromebook!
any advice for trying void? Ive heard good things but never really gave it a chance.
The gui installer was roughly about as simple as any other distro I’ve tried, and stuff generally seemed to work out of the box. There are more packages than one might expect from such a small distro too. Not sure I have any advice specific to Void really, although getting a custom bootloader onto a Chromebook was certainly a trip lol
I love cheap Chromebooks for this!! Getting custom bootloader onto them is kinda fun for me atp because I’ve done so many.
The handbook is outstanding. Read as much of it as you can. Even if you’re not a Void user, you’ll learn so much!
What’s wrong with systemd?
It tries to do everything.
Think of a thing you want to do in Linux and there is a systemd plugin for it. It’s not the unix way
Wait until you learn about the Linux kernel and the plethora of modules and patches
Not everything is a file either. I don’t see many complaints about that
A fellow Plan 9 enjoyer?
Bun spotted
Systemd is broken down into smaller parts. You don’t need to use it for everything.
General principals are great until you take them to an extreme. There’s always cases where you need to do something a bit different
All I hear about it is that it doesn’t follow the Unix philosophy of a program should do one thing and do it well. And while it does seem quite large and do a lot of things, out of all the times I have broken my system, systemd has never been to blame.
Edit: deleted duplicate comment.
Wait until people find out about the Linux kernel. It does so many things!
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I personally do not like that systemd gets more and more integrated with other software. For example Gnome. That makes it harder to use that software on non systemd linux, or other OS.
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Care to elaborate?
Nothing, but it’s new so people hate it. See also: PulseAudio, Pipewire, Wayland.
It is new if you could something that is 10 years old as new
Linux boomers still use ALSA and Slackware. 10 years old is new to them.
Normie here, what’s wrong with systemd?
Some people think it handles too many low-level systems. It’s a valid concern because if systemd itself were to become compromised (like Xz Utils was) or a serious bug was introduced, all of the userland processes would be affected. People who are stuck in the 90s and think that the Unix philosophy is still relevant will also point out that it’s a needlessly complex software suite and we should all go back to writing initscripts in bash.
Red Hat, the owner of systemd, has also had its fair share of controversies. It’s a company that many distrust.
Ultimately, those whose opinion mattered the most decided that systemd’s benefits outweigh the risks and drawbacks. Debian held a vote to determine the project’s future regarding init systems. Arch Linux replaced initscripts because systemd was simply better, and replicating and maintaining its features (like starting services once their dependencies are running) with initscripts would’ve been unjustifiably complicated.
I agree with you, but please let’s stop acting like there are only two init systems.
I hate it when people argue that systemd is better than init.d. So is everything else, I’m more than happy with OpenRC, and love it more than systemd.
There really is just one init system. Everyone and there dog uses systemd. It is the old people who hate change that are complaining.
I changed to OpenRC and I’ve never been happier.
Gentoo rules.
OpenRC has all the issues of systemd and none of the benefits
I can’t say I understand your view point
What issues do you mean? And what benefits?
It is more complicated than basic init scripts but doesn’t have much advantage. At least with systemd you get lots of features.
It us also a bit slower if you have a bunch of services
Nothing, it’s just bloated but in practice if your system meets normal distros system requirements systemd isn’t going to make that much of a difference in practical use.
It is modular so you can cut it down to a few megs if you want.
Bloated when being run on a potato.
Luckily 99.9% of people do not compute on a potato.
https://wiki.aosc.io/aosc-os/retro/intro/
It can run on a system with 32mb of ram
@Gork @nutbutter just look at /proc/1/maps on systemd-powered system :)
I do not see any reason keeping all of this in init. It might be implemented in optional lightweight services, not in single monster-binaryNothing. Elitists are just smug
Nintendo 3DS
It’s either Slackware (Linux, no systemd), OpenBSD or NetBSD.
True story: I install a Red Hat server with a disk shelf with about 12 SAS disk in it. Red Hat has systemd. Everything works fine for a month.
One (1) disk out of the 12 fails. No biggie. Shutdown the server cleanly. Replace disk. Flip power back on. Rebuild disk config. Simple, right?
Wrong. You see, systemd is unhappy. It detects a new disk. It has lost a previous disk. And so, it refuses to boot. Period.
Yes, there are ways out of this. But that was the day I decided systemd was the down of the devil.
This has never happened to me on a systemd server before. Methinks you left out some details
Probably systemd panicked because disk id has changed. Not a reason to stop booting but that is why people hate it. Tries to handle everything, badly.
I mean, the point of the init process is to bring up the filesystem and disks, if the configuration is wrong that’ll be the process to complain about it.
I once hit my head on a metal pipe
From then forward I stopped using indoor plumbing
I don’t care about the init system, however i do love void mainly because of the package manager.
I have to say as someone who uses NixOS I love systemd, because it makes a lot of things very easy. For example hardening services (
systemd-analyze security) or replacing cron (system timer).TIL about
systemd-analyze security. Thanks!
As a user, why should I care whether the distro I use uses systemd? I use Mint and I don’t remember having to interact with that kind of low-level nonsense. The distro maintainers can use whatever reasoning they want to pick these details.
Tribalism exists in every circle, perhaps moreso in tech circles. Ironically anyone who hates on a distro could just switch, or build their own distro if they were so inclined, but it’s often the hating that people participate more in than using their system. Use what works for you, and if it no longer works for you use something else.
If you are just a user, in that a computer is just a tool you use, then you’re right, there’s comparatively little reason to be concerened or even know about the underlying details of the system. If you go further and start making changes to your system, or even building more complex systems, over time you will find yourself forming quite firm opinions about various parts of the underlying system, especially if you’ve had experience with other options.
As a user, why should I care whether the distro I use uses systemd?
Um, because as a user you may have to deal with services, or other systemd features?
Let’s say you want to start
ssh-agentwhen you login to your desktop environment. Well, there’s a systemd service for that that you can enable, and on another distro you’d have to do it another way (autostart script or something).
Probably Artix, because it’s like Arch, and I use Arch btw
There is an openrc package in aur, so perhaps arch can use non-systemd init as well.
Would probably be a hell to actually implement, as everything is made for systemd (as in, all packages rely on systemd for being run)
Arch can absolutely use other init systems though it is officially unsupported
Why should I not use systemd?
Contrarianism
Perfectly legitimate reason to do/ not do anything
/s
I disagree.
because the over 70 different binaries of systemd are “not modular” because they are designed to work together. What makes a monolith is, apparently, the name of the overarching project, not it being a single binary (which again, it’s not)
If I cared about modularity I’d use something like Hurd, but i actually need to get shit done
What makes it a monolith is that the 70 binaries refuse to do their one job (see: Unix philosophy) independently.
A few months ago, a systemd update broke my boot process because I dared set up my device-mapper nodes manually in a minimal initrd without having a second copy of systemd in there as well. The device is there, yet systemd times out “waiting for device”. How come then a manual mount -a in the rescue shell works then?
If course, the bug had already been reported and swiftly rejected by L. “Hurr durr bother your distributor not me” Pottering.
When you want to feel special but not enough to go to the effort of using FreeBSD
I already am special enough, my mom said so
Nobody wants to be like those “special needs” users.
Offended.
IPv6?
When you’re not using your computer
What a wild concept
If you have to ask, then there’s no reason not to. It’s people who tinker with their systems that encounter issues with it, or more often random annoyances that add up over tme to those memes.
Scans room
Windows 11.
Init is just that bad. /s
The tasteful thickness of it
Chaotic neutral
