This is a truly WTF moment about messed up responses to X11 session removal in Gnome.
2 weeks ago I published a blogpost about the upcoming plans of GNOME 49 and the eventual removal of the X11 session. Since then, instead of looking at feedback, bugs and issues related to the topic, we all collectively had to deal with the following, and I am not exaggerating one bit:
- Fascists and Nazis
- Wild Conspiracy Theories that make Qanon jealous
- “Concerned” Trolling about the Accessibility of the Wayland session
- A culture war where Wayland is Gay, and X11 is the glorious past they stole from you
In my wildest dreams I could have never made this shit up. You all need mandatory supervised access to the Internet from now on.
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This probably has a lot to do with the new DOA XServer fork being “anti-DEI” (pro-discrimination). When these slimy shitweasels go out and vice signal about how bigoted they are, they congregate around it and form a new harassment campagin because they have no life.
Sorry you’re getting harassed. I hope you can take solace in the fact that these little pissbabies lead miserable lives.
X11 AND Wayland are for degenerates, a distraction at best but mostly just something that wastes CPU cycles and RAM.
THE FUTURE IS TERMINAL!
THE FUTURE IS TERMINAL!
The past and present are also terminal.
obviously the future is shoving the ethernet cable up your ass and dialing in directly
That would explain 70% of the shit you can find on the internet
The future is ARCAN!
Thank you for this new rabbit hole that thanks to my pathological curiosity for software on the far side of normalcy i now HAVE to explore and waste time i should spend working on a project 😜
Oh, your welcome. It’s a great rabbit hole. I remember venturing down it for the first time some years ago. I’ve since been able to build arcan from source and get pipeworld working on void linux. It’s not daily drivable yet, (not for me at least) but it works, and it’s cool as fuck.
Gotta say, his latest post, Sunsetting Cursed Terminal Emulation, really reminded me of some programming woes you can read from The Unix Haters’ Handbook.
terminal emulators aren’t leaky abstractions, they’re quite literally the abstraction being leaked :-D.
\[email protected]
YES! i would love it if arcan/durden/lash-cat9 got some mainstream traction.
Kermit or nothing
I have been known to use XMODEM over
screenover telnet for file transfer.
Looks like I have been an early adopter of Gay™️
Haha what the hell did I just read
Link is dead
I am not exaggerating one bit:
Wish I could believe you but I honestly don’t believe anyone who says this anymore.
Archive link to the rescue: https://web.archive.org/web/20250624214542/https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/23/the-fascist-maggots/
Once on internet, forever on internet :) Thanks.
I do think ditching X11 is still slightly premature. For all its more modern features, there’s still a lot that Wayland either hasn’t implemented yet or “can’t do” because of its “security model.”
Can you name something that’s missing? Because I can’t think of anything relevant.
I"ve been experimenting with both Cosmos and XFCE Wayland.
Color pickers, screenshot, and window recording/streaming all don’t seem to work or require Wayland-only packages that are extremely primitive in features and use.
Alt+tabbing out of games, whether fullscreen or windowed, also doesn’t seem to work.
Wallpapers and cursors installed to the standard location where the distro installs all of them don’t seem to be usable. I have to manually copy them to somewhere in the home directory in order to use them.
Screensavers seem to be unusable except for one port of xscreensavers.
I know OpenSUSE plans to eliminate x11, so I’m trying to get used to Wayland, but I do hope it’s more developed before I have to use it full time.
tbf, aren’t both of those still in early stages? I don’t think I’ve had any issues with those on KDE wayland
I"ve been experimenting with both Cosmos [I’m assuming you mean Cosmic, System76’s upcoming DE?] and XFCE Wayland.
So the only Wayland implementations you’ve tried are ones in Alpha or Beta?
Tbh that seems like an unfair comparison. You’re comparing alpha and beta software to production-ready software, and complaining about it not being as stable.
Wayland is a lot more mature on Gnome or Plasma. I started using Wayland on Gnome in 2019, and aside from when I briefly tested with an Nvidia card a number of years ago, the only issue I’ve ever had was screen sharing on discord, which was ‘Discord are pathologically against updating their electron version’ issue, not a Wayland issue.
Do we have a widely adopted aolution yet for screensharing, global shortcuts, and window position restoration?
Screen sharing under gnome and KDE just works. Even in sway that’s solved for quite a while now. I would call that widely adopted. I haven’t encountered the other two as problems yet. Global shortcuts work in my sway session. I would expect nothing else from gnome and KDE. Window position restoration is also a standard feature in sway AFAIK. Not sure if gnome or KDE do it.
Perhaps I should take another look now that the ecosystem has had time to mature…
Try the big ones. Gnome or KDE just works.
I use Plasma on my server, but I don’t use my server’s UI very often
Why does your server need a UI?
Use NVIDIA as primary GPU on laptops (not offload)
https://www.phoronix.com/news/NVIDIA-R575-Wayland-PlansCurrently you can only set NVIDIA to offload some of the rendering, but not as primary GPU like X11
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/NVIDIA_Optimus#Use_NVIDIA_graphics_only
Yeah nvidia is always a pita. But even that gets better.
Sure, Autokey doesn’t work.
What’s autokey?
It’s roughly equivalent to AutoHotKey on Windows. It’s an application that can intercept key combos or even typed strings and…do basically anything. Let’s say you type a certain phrase a lot, you could come up with an abbreviation so that when you type an abbreviation it deletes the abbreviation and inserts the big thing you type. Or maybe you want it to fire when you press ALT+ y. Or, maybe you want it to do something programmatic, like insert the date and time. Or do anything you can get Python to do.
This apparently does not work on Wayland systems, something about the way it accessed keystrokes in X11 isn’t open in Wayland for security concerns.
Honestly that sounds like a security nightmare and its probably a good thing that doesn’t work anymore.
Honestly if pressing some buttons to get the computer to do something you programmed it to do is a “security nightmare” I think we should probably just give up, tear down the electric grid and go back to dying of smallpox at 17 like nature intended.
That’s not problematic part. The reading all my inputs is.
I don’t know autokey, so I can’t speak to whether they replace all its functionality but there are ‘xdotool-like’ programs for Wayland. So it is at least very possible to replace functionality like the latter you mentioned (press button/button combination -> do an action, like inserting date/start a program/do something programmatic). Some examples I know are:
ydotool is a perfect replacement for dmenu based password managers.
There is no place for Fascists within the Open Source and Free Software communities or the society at large. You will never fester your poisonous roots here. Go back to the cave you crawled out from where no sunlight can reach.
NAZI! DEVS! FUCK! OFF! 💯
Nazis AND Devs should fuck of?
No. Nazis should fuck off.
Devs should just fuck.
Go back to the cave you crawled out from where no sunlight can reach.
Bro aimed at his foot
I use X11 over Wayland on KDE Neon for RustDesk compatibility. The Wayland support for that application is still in Beta from what I understand.
Are there other reasons why I should keep X11? I am on AMD Ryzen 9 5950X paired with a RTX 3090 FE on
570-opendrivers, for reference.From my weak Linux knowledge, Wayland has problems with screen sharing.
I know there’s dozen ways to screen share but I mostly care about discord and discord screen sharing doesn’t work on Linux, curiously enough if you get obs to create a virtual camera of whatever you want to stream it will stream it flawlessly. Use the default way of streaming anything and it craps out
Ihey fixed this, it should be working
as of when ? using what method of using discord, browser or the electron app? ? under x11 or Wayland?
I’m on x11 so I guess I’ll have to find out tonight if it works or not
I don’t know of any screen sharing issues tbh. I’ve unfortunately had to share my screen through google meet for more than a year now :(
Krita ux crash when dragging layers or frames using tablet.
Um… That’s literally it. They both work just fine so there’s no difference.
I’m fairly sure there’s no way to do remote Wayland from Windows, yet without X11. But what do I know? I’m running ububtu 22.04 still
Remote Wayland, no, as it isn’t network transparent like X11 is. You can still do remote desktops, though, usually with RDP or VNC. On the popular modern toolkits, this works out about the same, since drawing applications through X11 is not so common anymore.
Wayland is gay?! I need to get off my ass and finally switch then!
Can confirm, having my different refresh rate monitors play nice with each other is extremely homosexual.
… Does this imply that Wayland has a penis?
Asking… For science, or something, I dunno what is going on.
given how wayland relies on extensions i’d imagine it’s a strap-on
X11 is on/under your ass?
Maybe they were both gay all along, that’s why we enjoy their sessions so much.
There is no place for Fascists within the Open Source and Free Software communities or the society at large. You will never fester your poisonous roots here
So who took the blog post down at Gnome?
Now I hate Gnome
But:
- Harrassing the creators is cringe, even if they make (undeniably-very-competently-made-but-by-virtue-of-dumb-choices-rendered-into) bad computer programmes
- Wayland is good actually, Gnome or otherwise.
Gnome programs, and Gnome itself, is pretty great.
You don’t have to shit on a project just because you don’t use their stuff or like something else.
Gnome in general is undeniably made competently by competent and talented people. If it wasn’t, it would break a lot more.
Those competent and talented people also managed to make extremely bad choices at every turn, and seem ideologically opposed to the idea of customization, resulting in an environment that is fundamentally painful to use unless you very specifically fit the box of what they expect users to be like.
My feelings exactly, stated a lot better than I could have managed.
FFS, what is with this toxicity?
They aren’t bad choices. They are choices that you don’t like, but plenty of others do.
It sort of feels like an Apple product, in that sense. Very well-made, but god forbid you don’t want to do things exactly as they say you should
No it doesn’t, because Gnome is completely customisable, and the devs encourage that through the extensions platform.
If you don’t like Gnome, that’s ok. You don’t need to moan about it online and say it’s shit. I don’t like mushrooms. I don’t moan about it, I don’t say meals are bad for including them, and I don’t tell people they’re wrong for liking them.
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Those competent and talented people also managed to make extremely bad choices at every turn, and seem ideologically opposed to the idea of customization, resulting in an environment that is fundamentally painful to use unless you very specifically fit the box of what they expect users to be like.
There’s nothing wrong with not providing customization. There’s a perfectly decent customizable DE in KDE, anyone that wants to tinker can use that.
I don’t want to tinker. I want something to just work, and not have too many knobs. Gnome fills this need perfectly. Thus, you saying that they made bad choices at every turn seems rather idiotic.
Sure, but them stonewalling KDE for months with libadwaita theming preventing gnome apps from using the breeze theme properly on KDE is a bad decision - one that should never have happened. They eventually worked it out, but they shouldn’t have first told the KDE devs to essentially pound sand, especially given KDE goes out of their way to make their apps use gnome’s themes correctly no matter what, so your gnome system looks right when using KDE apps. The same courtesy should be expected from GNOME, at least to provide the scaffolding for that.
That is the kind of bad decisions I thought of when they brought it up. Or heck, why isn’t dash to dock built into gnome at this point? Like a quarter of the gnome users (and yes, they checked their telemetry and found this to be true) were using it - that’s obviously something that even if it goes against their design philosophy the DE should have built-in at this point. I think if you’re not in the GNOME weeds, you won’t see the kinds of boneheaded decisions they have made over the years.
Thanks, I was going to post a very similar rant.
The “just works” argument IS a valid one and they would have a point – IF Gnome’s defaults were in any way sensible. They aren’t. The entire workflow is a nightmare. (I made the apple comparison – Well, uhh… MacOS is also a walled garden that doesn’t let you change shit, but at least it’s got very decent defaults)
Gnome’s file manager didn’t let you type in FOLDER ADDRESSES until a few months ago, ffs. And sure you could, even then, use an alternative file manager.
… But at that point you are fucking with the premise of “just works”, because you will need to use non-default stuff.
You stay very subjective views as if they are facts. Then you go and add an obvious lie to the whole thing - you could’ve typed directory addresses for years, maybe even since the beginning.
At this point, your post should be taken with a ton of salt, if at all
You’re the one lying. Gnome 46. That’s when it was added.
“Location entry on click” and “Detailed timestamps for files” listed proudly as “features” as if they aren’t default on every file manager that doesn’t treat its users like babies too dumb to use their computers.
Except when I am forced to use a distro that only provides Gnome (looking at you RedHat).
Redhat doesn’t provide KDE rpms? That’s some dump shit
they deprecated KDE as of 7 to 8. Guess how I know? Corporate IT upgraded our development servers.
see this wouldn’t be a problem if every distro didn’t insist on having gnome as the default and main DE
This is objectively false. Distros that care about choice and tinkering will allow you to select a DE during installation. See Arch Linux for example.
Article was taken down. Archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20250624214542/https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/23/the-fascist-maggots/
Is it so surprising that the mindset that makes people unable to face changes in one area of their lives also makes them unable to face changes in other areas?
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Wayland is basically X12 in many ways
switch from Gnome to a cooler window manager 🤷
I think that’s easier for us to say, who actually do use something cooler. But for those whose workflow is messed up by this, I understand why they’re upset. But yeah, it’s time to move into the future, for real. High time.
You’d think they would be used to it since every update ruins their workflow too.
What? The last major change to the gnome workflow was going from vertical to horizontal workspaces, and that was several years ago.
Mostly just trash talking how so much basic functionality is in add-ons that break frequently with updates.
You can disable version checking and have them run if you want to, although that’s probably not advisable.
going from vertical to horizontal workspaces
Do you mean vice versa? Or did they go back to horizontal again? 😅
They were vertical during all of Gnome 3, then changed to horizontal.
Oh wow, so they did. I have missed that 😅 I’ve been using i3 for like the last 10–15 years. Gnome being back to horizontal workspaces again like in GNOME 2 is wild to me. It’s a great change!
Wait, does that mean xmonad will get to live a tiny bit longer?
