That’s the thing; most democrat politicians hate him nearly as much as the republican ones do, as they’re more similar to one another than either is to him. There are a few exceptions, but we’re going to need people aligned with Mamdani to be the norm rather than the exception if we want the democratic party to become a real force for good.
It matters because the party isn’t the people, it’s infrastructure. It’s buildings, it’s support staff, it’s mailing lists and payment processors
It’s getting a special (often unfair) place on the ballot in all 50 states. It’s 50 (often flawed) primary processes that follow local laws
And it’s a banner. Not one people like, but it’s one banner. A banner that theoretically stands for democracy and the common man
The left is not organized. Do we rally behind a fresh, ideologically pure banner? Which one? How long to work out which group is the best? How long until we can build up that infrastructure?
Fuck that. Winning is what matters.
The people are on our side for now, there’s so much anger and energy. How long until they adjust to the new normal and go back to refusing to believe in a better world?
We have a chance right now. The next 18 months. In one sweep we can take a tattered banner and get in control - before people get cold feet. While they’re still just screaming for someone to stop Trump.
We can use the momentum to unfuck our democracy once we take control, but we can’t get distracted. There’s no room for purity or lofty ideals. We have to take what is offered and exploit every opportunity. We have to use the system against itself.
The infrastructure and design of the DNC is built from the ground up to service its donors, wealthy people. There isn’t anything about a bourgeois party we need. Just join a party like PSL and learn from the success of other Socialists around the world. It isn’t about ideological purity, it’s about practicality, and what you’re describing has never happened, ever. Entryism does not work, again.
The US never had a democracy. Trump is about as bad as every other president, only more honest about how evil it all is. The system cannot be used against itself, the state must be smashed and replaced entirely.
I understand that you have a lot of anger and energy, and I think it would be fantastic if you channeled that into studying successful leftist movements, read some theory, and join a good org, rather than try to repeat something that has never succeeded, ever.
Socialism isn’t on the table. We’re so incredibly far from that. Let me know when the revolution is coming and I’ll be there for it… Until then we very real issues that we can make a bit better. Not good - we’re totally fucked - but we can make things less horrible
There’s a genocide in progress. We’re going to go through a depression. We can tea party the Democrats to be more progressive… There’s no time to build up something new
I can’t impress on you enough how many people are going to die
Better in a vacuum, yes, but as /u/[email protected] pointed out, a huge amount of voters pay absolutely no attention, and just vote for whatever color they’ve always voted for. Hell, a bunch of people searched “Did Joe Biden drop out?” on election day, because they paid so little attention that they didn’t even know about Harris. That’s an extreme example, sure, but it’s just not a realistic expectation to think people will really think hard about a 3rd party, especially when it won’t get a proportionate amount of attention even if it got a huge amount of support, thanks to the billionaire-backed media.
If we don’t get someone into one of the 2 established parties, we’re crippling ourselves, likely to the point of immediate failure. It would be significantly more viable to change one of the parties by flooding it with new socialist politicians than it would be to build up a new platform based on socialism from the start.
Nah, entryism is a proven failure. As conditions worsen, people pay increasingly more attention to politics. Reformism in general is a lost cause, revolution is necessary, but entryism is especially bad.
It can’t have been proven without participation. Congressional primaries haven’t seen more than 15% attendance in over 40 years. We’ve been allowing retirees from the Silent Generation and now Boomers to decide our candidates. Gen X and younger need to actively participate in primaries and attempt to take the party over before we can actually say we’ve proven anything.
The US does not have a unique set of physics that only it applies to. We have a wealth of historical experience proving the ineffectiveness of entryism, even in the US. People have tried this, it doesn’t work, and even if it did miraculously work we would have a worse party than if we put all of that effort into building up PSL.
I know you know better comrade.
They’re stuck in the endless loop of trying to fix something that’s broken, while it’s functioning perfectly at keeping the status quo.
When I read that, again 🙄, I like to post this, from 1871
"It is well known that the Americans have been striving for 30 years to shake off this yoke, which
has become intolerable, and that in spite of all they can do they continue to sink ever deeper in
this swamp of corruption. It is precisely in America that we see best how there takes place this
process of the state power making itself independent in relation to society, whose mere
instrument it was originally intended to be. "
…"we find here two great gangs of political speculators, who
alternately take possession of the state power and exploit it by the most corrupt means and for the
most corrupt ends – and the nation is powerless against these two great cartels of politicians, who
are ostensibly its servants, but in reality exploit and plunder it. "
That doesn’t matter at all. He won the primary with a grassroots campaign, so he doesn’t need their funding. Being in the blue/Working Families column will win the know-nothing vote in NYC.
The key is for us to seek out the progressive on the primary ballot and vote. We shouldn’t be rewarding the candidates that have the financial means to find us in our living rooms. Sign up for mailers if you forget to vote. Sign up for mail-in ballots if you have an irregular schedule.
It’s less about funding, and more about the fuckery they can do by making Cuomo run as an independent. Electoralism will never be the permanent answer, revolution is still necessary, but Mamdani is still good for now.
That depends entirely on who we vote for in the primaries.
See: Zohran Mamdani for an example
To be fair, Mamdani is facing massive backlash from the Dem establishment.
That’s the thing; most democrat politicians hate him nearly as much as the republican ones do, as they’re more similar to one another than either is to him. There are a few exceptions, but we’re going to need people aligned with Mamdani to be the norm rather than the exception if we want the democratic party to become a real force for good.
I doubt it’s possible for the DNC to be a force for good, better to have a new party entirely.
Why? The party is dead. They’re just holding onto their seats
Take the seats, you take it all. Keep the infrastructure of the party, keep the name recognition and the data they have, and replace the members
It’s happening already - Hoggs funneled money into Mumdani’s primary even as they try to ratfuck him out…
If the party is dead, why rely on a party designed from the ground up to serve wealthy donors? Entryism doesn’t work.
You spelled “take” wrong
It matters because the party isn’t the people, it’s infrastructure. It’s buildings, it’s support staff, it’s mailing lists and payment processors
It’s getting a special (often unfair) place on the ballot in all 50 states. It’s 50 (often flawed) primary processes that follow local laws
And it’s a banner. Not one people like, but it’s one banner. A banner that theoretically stands for democracy and the common man
The left is not organized. Do we rally behind a fresh, ideologically pure banner? Which one? How long to work out which group is the best? How long until we can build up that infrastructure?
Fuck that. Winning is what matters.
The people are on our side for now, there’s so much anger and energy. How long until they adjust to the new normal and go back to refusing to believe in a better world?
We have a chance right now. The next 18 months. In one sweep we can take a tattered banner and get in control - before people get cold feet. While they’re still just screaming for someone to stop Trump.
We can use the momentum to unfuck our democracy once we take control, but we can’t get distracted. There’s no room for purity or lofty ideals. We have to take what is offered and exploit every opportunity. We have to use the system against itself.
We have to win. Now. Or we all die
The infrastructure and design of the DNC is built from the ground up to service its donors, wealthy people. There isn’t anything about a bourgeois party we need. Just join a party like PSL and learn from the success of other Socialists around the world. It isn’t about ideological purity, it’s about practicality, and what you’re describing has never happened, ever. Entryism does not work, again.
The US never had a democracy. Trump is about as bad as every other president, only more honest about how evil it all is. The system cannot be used against itself, the state must be smashed and replaced entirely.
I understand that you have a lot of anger and energy, and I think it would be fantastic if you channeled that into studying successful leftist movements, read some theory, and join a good org, rather than try to repeat something that has never succeeded, ever.
I don’t think you understand.
Socialism isn’t on the table. We’re so incredibly far from that. Let me know when the revolution is coming and I’ll be there for it… Until then we very real issues that we can make a bit better. Not good - we’re totally fucked - but we can make things less horrible
There’s a genocide in progress. We’re going to go through a depression. We can tea party the Democrats to be more progressive… There’s no time to build up something new
I can’t impress on you enough how many people are going to die
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good
That’s the true Blue MAGA spirit.
We’re shit, we do a little genocide and whatever but forget that and vote for us bcs we’re not Trump.
He wasnt advocating you vote for conservative dems after they ratfuck their way to a general election.
Better in a vacuum, yes, but as /u/[email protected] pointed out, a huge amount of voters pay absolutely no attention, and just vote for whatever color they’ve always voted for. Hell, a bunch of people searched “Did Joe Biden drop out?” on election day, because they paid so little attention that they didn’t even know about Harris. That’s an extreme example, sure, but it’s just not a realistic expectation to think people will really think hard about a 3rd party, especially when it won’t get a proportionate amount of attention even if it got a huge amount of support, thanks to the billionaire-backed media.
If we don’t get someone into one of the 2 established parties, we’re crippling ourselves, likely to the point of immediate failure. It would be significantly more viable to change one of the parties by flooding it with new socialist politicians than it would be to build up a new platform based on socialism from the start.
Nah, entryism is a proven failure. As conditions worsen, people pay increasingly more attention to politics. Reformism in general is a lost cause, revolution is necessary, but entryism is especially bad.
It can’t have been proven without participation. Congressional primaries haven’t seen more than 15% attendance in over 40 years. We’ve been allowing retirees from the Silent Generation and now Boomers to decide our candidates. Gen X and younger need to actively participate in primaries and attempt to take the party over before we can actually say we’ve proven anything.
The US does not have a unique set of physics that only it applies to. We have a wealth of historical experience proving the ineffectiveness of entryism, even in the US. People have tried this, it doesn’t work, and even if it did miraculously work we would have a worse party than if we put all of that effort into building up PSL.
I know you know better comrade.
They’re stuck in the endless loop of trying to fix something that’s broken, while it’s functioning perfectly at keeping the status quo.
When I read that, again 🙄, I like to post this, from 1871
"It is well known that the Americans have been striving for 30 years to shake off this yoke, which has become intolerable, and that in spite of all they can do they continue to sink ever deeper in this swamp of corruption. It is precisely in America that we see best how there takes place this process of the state power making itself independent in relation to society, whose mere instrument it was originally intended to be. "
…"we find here two great gangs of political speculators, who alternately take possession of the state power and exploit it by the most corrupt means and for the most corrupt ends – and the nation is powerless against these two great cartels of politicians, who are ostensibly its servants, but in reality exploit and plunder it. "
Marx is always a banger, great quote!
That doesn’t matter at all. He won the primary with a grassroots campaign, so he doesn’t need their funding. Being in the blue/Working Families column will win the know-nothing vote in NYC.
The key is for us to seek out the progressive on the primary ballot and vote. We shouldn’t be rewarding the candidates that have the financial means to find us in our living rooms. Sign up for mailers if you forget to vote. Sign up for mail-in ballots if you have an irregular schedule.
It’s less about funding, and more about the fuckery they can do by making Cuomo run as an independent. Electoralism will never be the permanent answer, revolution is still necessary, but Mamdani is still good for now.
Or the wtfery they can do by denationalization.
The Democratic party is terrified of that dude. Primary all of them.
100%. There are primaries all the time. The only difference with Zohran is we showed up.
And because he won that primary 2 other mainstream “Dems” are going to be challenging him in the General as well.
.