If you lead with “Thing you like is actually bad”, their immediate response will be to disagree with you and start defending the thing they like. And if you want someone to listen to your arguments, rather than just try to poke holes in them, you must avoid putting them on the defensive.
To get through to people, find common ground and build off that. “If you like FEATURE in GAME, you’ll probably love SIMILAR FEATURE in OTHER GAME because…” is something that’s actually going to get someone interested, rather than start a pointless argument :)
If they play a system, they probably like that system and find its shortcomings acceptable. You can’t convince someone that a system isn’t enjoyable when they have first-hand evidence to the contrary.
Asking people to stop being comfortable doing something they like, so that they can be uncomfortable doing something you like, isn’t a good value proposition.
Sute, but the thing they like is “D&D”, and D&D isn’t just a game anymore, it’s an identity signifier. Pointing people to other games before establishing yourself as firmly not attacking their identity is going to trigger a fight.
It’s not about identity as much as it’s a very poor way to try to convince someone.
Don’t base your line of argument on a statement you know the other person will likely disagree with.
For example “You should play Pathfinder because DnD sucks”, holds no weight to people who don’t think that DnD sucks. In fact if they happen to like DnD, it undermines your argument, because if you disagree about DnD, aren’t you also likely to disagree about Pathfinder?
D&D isn’t just a game anymore, it’s an identity signifier
Which is part of the problem. Like talking to someone who only drinks Coca-Cola about trying a new bag of tea you brought over.
attacking their identity
If you’ve wedded yourself so deeply to the brand that you feel attacked whenever someone levels a critique, you’re probably not mature enough to be at my table.
If you lead with “Thing you like is actually bad”, their immediate response will be to disagree with you and start defending the thing they like. And if you want someone to listen to your arguments, rather than just try to poke holes in them, you must avoid putting them on the defensive.
To get through to people, find common ground and build off that. “If you like FEATURE in GAME, you’ll probably love SIMILAR FEATURE in OTHER GAME because…” is something that’s actually going to get someone interested, rather than start a pointless argument :)
Why would you assume the critiques are of things they like? 5e has plenty of widely recognized flaws.
Often, simply catering to people’s priors means never leaving their comfort zone.
If they play a system, they probably like that system and find its shortcomings acceptable. You can’t convince someone that a system isn’t enjoyable when they have first-hand evidence to the contrary.
Asking people to stop being comfortable doing something they like, so that they can be uncomfortable doing something you like, isn’t a good value proposition.
I don’t think you’ve ever actually gamed before.
Sute, but the thing they like is “D&D”, and D&D isn’t just a game anymore, it’s an identity signifier. Pointing people to other games before establishing yourself as firmly not attacking their identity is going to trigger a fight.
It’s not about identity as much as it’s a very poor way to try to convince someone.
Don’t base your line of argument on a statement you know the other person will likely disagree with.
For example “You should play Pathfinder because DnD sucks”, holds no weight to people who don’t think that DnD sucks. In fact if they happen to like DnD, it undermines your argument, because if you disagree about DnD, aren’t you also likely to disagree about Pathfinder?
Which is part of the problem. Like talking to someone who only drinks Coca-Cola about trying a new bag of tea you brought over.
If you’ve wedded yourself so deeply to the brand that you feel attacked whenever someone levels a critique, you’re probably not mature enough to be at my table.
Ok, but these discussions aren’t happening at you’re table. “Well, fuck them then” isn’t exactly helpful.
Isn’t what I said. But if that’s what you’ve heard, you’re illustrating my point.