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Sometimes animals escape their enclosures and mis-feed themselves. The couple times I’ve witnessed this were the result of cows helping themselves to a field of alfalfa. Alfalfa is good as a component of a silage mix but is too rich to be consumed fresh on its own. But cows love alfalfa and are good at finding weaknesses in fencing.
Because it’s very common to feed cows subsidized grains instead of letting them graze on grasses. Definitely the kind of thing that would create too much methane during digestion. Corn especially has way more sugars than the grasses they’re supposed to eat.
Edit: It appears it’s not necessarily grain but does have to do with the quality of their feed.
You’ve probably heard at some point in your life that cows have 4 stomachs (or a 4-chambered stomach)
The purpose for that is because in their natural environment cows eat grass (not that there’s really “natural” cows anymore, the aurochs is long-extinct, but other ruminants like bison are similar)
Grass is kind of a shitty food source for most animals, it has very little sugar and starch that your body can use for energy.
But it is full of fiber. Most animals can’t really digest fiber very well, but ruminants with those extra stomachs and the help of some bacterial fermentation can. Grass and such basically gets churned around in those extra stomach chambers with some bacteria to ferment and break down into something the cows can actually use for energy.
Fermentation, of course, creates gases like CO2 which is why beer is fizzy and bread rises.
And while that bacteria can and will ferment fiber, it will ferment sugars and starches even better.
So grains like corn end up creating more gases than if they were eating grass.
Naturally, cows wouldn’t have access to a limitless supply of corn that has been selectively cultivated over the years to have higher sugar and starch content. They don’t tend to have this issue when they’re eating primarily grass and can easily release it on their own by burping.
There would surely be some odd cases here and there of cows getting bloated on a less grain-heavy diet, but not nearly as common
Yes, but they wouldn’t have access to it in the first place if humans hadn’t existed, since corn is a new world plant, and the aurochs that domestic cattle descended from were from Eurasia.
And corn as we know it today is very much the product of thousands of years of agriculture. The wild teosinte plants that corn descends from didn’t have the big ears of sweet starchy kernels we know as corn today, it looked a lot more like grass that hasn’t been mowed in a long time that’s starting to go to seed, except scaled up a bit. If you look up pictures of “Zea diploperennis” or "Zea perennis that’s more like what natural corn looked like before humans started fucking with it.
And even if wild cows had access to wild corn, which they didn’t, they probably would have been chowing down on the whole plant, so mostly fiber with a bit of starch and sugar from comparatively few and small seeds, instead of just all corn kernels.
The problem isn’t methane production, it’s excessive soluble proteins producing a thick foam that prevents the methane from being expelled through the esophagus. Any feed produces large amounts of gas in grazing animals. What changes is the animals ability to safely vent the gas.
Everything I’ve read has said the opposite, but I’m no farmer.
I see lots of studies saying the grass and hay fed cattle produce more methane from the animals. Diets with high insoluble fiber are diets that create more methane. That said, grain production uses more CO2 than hay or pasture land.
Best thing is low fiber greenery, but that shit is expensive, and industrial farming goes with grass or grain.
It was conjecture and then a discussion. There was no argument happening. Sometimes it’s fun to just have a discussion and use that to get to the truth.
Because I used their arguments to dig deeper into real sources. Yeah it was kind of lazy to not post mine throughout, but it was just seat of my pants. Like I said it started as pure conjecture based on my existing knowledge of cows digestion and the process of fermentation. I was wrong but also partially right in my assumptions.
Imagine thinking this is a good solution to horribly mis-feeding animals.
Sometimes animals escape their enclosures and mis-feed themselves. The couple times I’ve witnessed this were the result of cows helping themselves to a field of alfalfa. Alfalfa is good as a component of a silage mix but is too rich to be consumed fresh on its own. But cows love alfalfa and are good at finding weaknesses in fencing.
That little rascle!
what makes you think this is due to misfeeding?
Because it’s very common to feed cows subsidized grains instead of letting them graze on grasses. Definitely the kind of thing that would create too much methane during digestion. Corn especially has way more sugars than the grasses they’re supposed to eat.
Edit: It appears it’s not necessarily grain but does have to do with the quality of their feed.
this is post hoc ergo propter hoc. you haven’t shown causation
You’ve probably heard at some point in your life that cows have 4 stomachs (or a 4-chambered stomach)
The purpose for that is because in their natural environment cows eat grass (not that there’s really “natural” cows anymore, the aurochs is long-extinct, but other ruminants like bison are similar)
Grass is kind of a shitty food source for most animals, it has very little sugar and starch that your body can use for energy.
But it is full of fiber. Most animals can’t really digest fiber very well, but ruminants with those extra stomachs and the help of some bacterial fermentation can. Grass and such basically gets churned around in those extra stomach chambers with some bacteria to ferment and break down into something the cows can actually use for energy.
Fermentation, of course, creates gases like CO2 which is why beer is fizzy and bread rises.
And while that bacteria can and will ferment fiber, it will ferment sugars and starches even better.
So grains like corn end up creating more gases than if they were eating grass.
that sounds like it’s just a natural, common problem cows have. good thing they are under our care, or bloat would be fatal.
Naturally, cows wouldn’t have access to a limitless supply of corn that has been selectively cultivated over the years to have higher sugar and starch content. They don’t tend to have this issue when they’re eating primarily grass and can easily release it on their own by burping.
There would surely be some odd cases here and there of cows getting bloated on a less grain-heavy diet, but not nearly as common
corn isn’t supernatural, and if humans disappeared today they would still have access to it
Yes, but they wouldn’t have access to it in the first place if humans hadn’t existed, since corn is a new world plant, and the aurochs that domestic cattle descended from were from Eurasia.
And corn as we know it today is very much the product of thousands of years of agriculture. The wild teosinte plants that corn descends from didn’t have the big ears of sweet starchy kernels we know as corn today, it looked a lot more like grass that hasn’t been mowed in a long time that’s starting to go to seed, except scaled up a bit. If you look up pictures of “Zea diploperennis” or "Zea perennis that’s more like what natural corn looked like before humans started fucking with it.
And even if wild cows had access to wild corn, which they didn’t, they probably would have been chowing down on the whole plant, so mostly fiber with a bit of starch and sugar from comparatively few and small seeds, instead of just all corn kernels.
Do you know how animals like cows digest their food?
if you have something to say, like some evidence this is a result of misfeeding, please say it. I don’t care for your interrogative style.
The problem isn’t methane production, it’s excessive soluble proteins producing a thick foam that prevents the methane from being expelled through the esophagus. Any feed produces large amounts of gas in grazing animals. What changes is the animals ability to safely vent the gas.
https://biologyinsights.com/why-does-alfalfa-cause-bloat-in-cattle/
Everything I’ve read has said the opposite, but I’m no farmer.
I see lots of studies saying the grass and hay fed cattle produce more methane from the animals. Diets with high insoluble fiber are diets that create more methane. That said, grain production uses more CO2 than hay or pasture land.
Best thing is low fiber greenery, but that shit is expensive, and industrial farming goes with grass or grain.
Yeah, it’s the quality of the feed, not necessarily it being grain. I had added an edit but you probably were commenting before that.
I don’t get why people have these kind of arguments without providing sources. It makes you both look argumentative and not very trustworthy.
It was conjecture and then a discussion. There was no argument happening. Sometimes it’s fun to just have a discussion and use that to get to the truth.
If you’re curious here’s a starting point. https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(25)00595-8/fulltext
Right, but how do you know who is talking from knowledge, and who isn’t?
Anyway, thanks for the reference, now I know :)
Because I used their arguments to dig deeper into real sources. Yeah it was kind of lazy to not post mine throughout, but it was just seat of my pants. Like I said it started as pure conjecture based on my existing knowledge of cows digestion and the process of fermentation. I was wrong but also partially right in my assumptions.
Specifically, it looks like the big thing is the content of insoluble fiber. If it’s fiber overload, you get lots of gas in their rumen.
I’ve seen cows in pasture get this.
It’s much harder to break down corn than grass for ruminants.