I don’t think 23andme and TikTok are even comparable to the rest of the list.
What about them ISPs?
A VPN and OpenWrt?
Then the VPN has your data, and also your ISP depending on how secure your setup is
LibreCMC and MullvadVPN?
How come every thread I see about this topic, there is nobody who is concerned about letting the federal government dictate which apps you can and cannot use to communicate with other people? This is some 1984 shit.
Because it isn’t new nor special.
Apps are a Service and services have been and are regulated for decades now and the system have been always arbitrary as fuck.
In the case of TikTok, the west, as a military alliance, should be concerned due to the nature of current valid Chinese laws and the implications of it.
And e.g. facebook has proven that they don’t like to stick to rules about how to handle data. In case of TikTok, this could easily have bigger implications for e.g. the American military.
If it’s really about the military as you suggest then the extremely easy solution is to order service members not to use Tik Tok.
Passing a specific law to compell the sale of one specific company is arguably some sort of Bill of Attainder, which I’m sure ByteDance’s lawyers will be argueing as soon as Biden’s pen touches paper.
Well look at that. And no, that isn’t enough from a military perspective. Look at the Russian propaganda war in e.g. Germany, that shit can have a negative effect on the defensive abilities of a nation.
Most of those bans are organizations saying that employees can’t install TikTok on organization issued phones and computers, which is not at all comparable to an overall ban? My work doesn’t allow me to play video games on work computers or drink on work property, but that’s not at all the same as a law banning all video games and alcohol.
Look at the Russian propaganda war in e.g. Germany, that shit can have a negative effect on the defensive abilities of a nation.
Yeah one problem with human and civil rights is that they tend to have negative effects on the defensive abilities of a nation. War would be so much easier if you could just arrest all the peace protestors, or hold suspected enemy agents without trial, or force people to work without pay in defence industries, or force women to give birth to more people so you can conscript more soldiers.
So let’s just do away with free speech and habeus corpus, reinstitute slave labor and force women to pop out lots of kids. Then Germany can defend itself again, just like the last two times.
Aren’t you misunderstanding my point a little bit? My point isn’t that the e.g. us should ban TikTok or that national security is the most important thing ever. My first Point was that there is a national security incentive to ban TikTok in ways that e.g. Facebook doesn’t have, but like you expressed obviously there are other consideration to be made. My first Point was just that TikTok is not like Facebook from an us national security pov. Then you spoke from a ban for service members, to which I simply pointed out that there is one to some degree, especially important as there is a ban on private devices in some environments. Deployment can be reason for the ban. In other words, your suggestion is already in place to some degree. My 2nd point about Russian propaganda is also strictly about the fact that “national security” doesn’t end at the government employee line and suggesting that is ridiculous.
As you might have realized, I haven’t expressed any desire to ban TikTok. That is because I am not in favor of a ban. I am just able to argue a perspective unlike mine own and think it is necessary when people treat Facebook and TikTok the same. Do you think china doesn’t care about where their software is coming from? Do you think no one is avoiding e.g. check point firewall due to e.g. gil shwed and his story with unit 8200?
Well, you can expect China doing the same. This kind of behaviour triggers retalliation.
You might look into the apps they have already banned.
The current situation over in China still allows internet users to easily access services like Facebook or YouTube through VPNs, it was more of a measure of digital protectionism to allow local development of IT companies, online business, etc. If China wants to do similar censorship in response to these measure, they very well could still crack down on VPNs.
They were blocking the bulk of the internet via their great firewall before mobile apps were even a thing
I don’t discriminate. I say the data protection of all of these services is terrible and you shouldn’t use them.
Yep.
I think users should embrace data harvesting and passively run chatGPT powered bots to generate more mindless data
Is there some way to trick the chatgpt training bots by intentionally mislabeling data? Like can I upload some
furry pornographytasteful erotica and label it “AP US history assignment - Civil War”?
Spottily is a Swedish company
Came here to say this
Sweden is not an adversary of the United States.
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I did not know Sweden had a no spying certification pass.
Op is just thanking the wrong country.
This forced sale of TikTok for national security is a farce because they were already forced to move their service to the US on an American-owned hosting provider, and they have already put people with a history of aligning with “American interests” into executive positions, like CEO Shou Zi Chew and vice president Michael Beckerman. I think the US “intelligence community” already has everything it needs to monitor and control TikTok.
I have a geoIP alias on my firewall and can still see TikTok sending telemetry to a Chinese CDN.
If so, then maybe the US “intelligence community” doesn’t actually see that as a problem, despite the cold war propaganda.
sending telemetry to a Chinese CDN.
If this is your basis of evaluation of spying, this is straight up xenophobic and racist. Why? Because you (and Anglos) intentionally abuse the language barrier as a way to obfuscate the difference between spying and regular internet activity. This is reddit tier bullshit that almost every “investigative” YouTuber and blogger does.
Calling people “Anglos” as if their race somehow defines their worldview is racist. Expressing concern because an application with alleged ties to an authoritarian regime is sending data to an endpoint within said regime’s borders might be silly, but it has nothinvg to do with race. With respect, that right there is some Israel “pointing out our human rights atrocities is antisemitic” level of bullshit.
Anglo in the sense of the Anglosphere, I think: Five Eyes. Five Eyes in basically the inner core of the imperial core.
World systems theory woukd suggest that the inner core should have shifted in the 21st century to include at thd very least China. Western powers may have been dominant in the mid to late 20th century but that is decidedly no longer the case; China fits every metric offered by the theory.
I doubt OP meant that anyway, given that their statements were directed at individual actors and not national powers.
Regardless, expressing concern because an app that both has ties to an authoritarian regime AND is effectively banned in that regime is understandable. Screaming RACIST at anyone who dares criticize China and calling them Anglos is both ridiculous and racist itself.
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It doesn’t matter where the servers are located physically but who can access the data that’s on them
They were physically relocated to the US so that the US can access the data, as people like Edward Snowden and Mark Klein have shown us. I’m sure the US knows precisely what data is and isn’t being sent to China.
This meme is a bit dishonest because its about Chinese government harvesting this data not about companies harvesting it. Both are bad but ones substantially worse.
The bill actually addresses any foreign adversary.
American companies have way more power over my life than the Chinese government
Yeah, if China wants the data of Americans they should buy it from American companies, not harvest it themselves.
They’re not mad about leaking data, they’re mad that China is drinking their milkshake.
US companies != US federal government
At first I thought you were being serious, but I think this is a joke? That Americans don’t care how many companies spy on them as long as it’s not the government?
Which, is laughable because of course the government has contacts at everyone one of these companies and they’d gladly hand over your data then go to court to protect it
No, you’re misunderstanding. The Chinese government has significantly more influence and power over Chinese companies than the US federal government has over US companies. People are acting like both are the same, but they are not.
It should be a known fact at this point that US companies share all the data the goverment wants, i don’t think the greater influence matters in this case.
This is sort of true, though it’s hard to make a clear distinction between US capitalists and the US government when the capitalists control the government, and have since the 1776 bourgeois revolution.
China is a proletarian state, where the capitalist class is not in control: China’s housing minister says real estate developers must go bankrupt if necessary
Whereas the US is a bourgeois state, where the capitalist class is in control.
Yeah okay. Your far-left talking points aren’t convincing me and are definitely making your point harder to parse.
yeah what was that? I guess thats lemmy.ml for ya
The original devs of Lemmy use Lenin and Che Guevara as their avatar pics. No one should be surprised that their primary instance is full of tankies.
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They’re not joking
US federal gov already got their hand in companies ass.
reverse order
Chinese companies != Chin…wait.
Ever heard about CLOUD act?
All of the US corporate social media platforms are part of the US military-industrial-intellegence complex. Look at their boards of directors and executives. Look at the Twitter Files. Look Hamilton 68.
Look at Reddit:
- Facebook Partners With Hawkish Atlantic Council, a NATO Lobby Group, to “Protect Democracy”
- Jessica Ashooh: The taming of Reddit and the National Security State Plant tabbed to do it
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
- r/neoliberal was created by a neoliberal think tank » BPR Interviews: The Neoliberal Project
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They have their eye on the fediverse now as well: Atlantic Council » Collective Security in a Federated World
You’re also misunderstanding. I won’t deny that US companies seek profit wherever they can, even from unethical sources. I also don’t doubt their involvement with law enforcement and intelligence agencies. But a company seeking profit through a partnership with the United States federal government is not the same as the totalitarian Chinese government requiring oversight of Chinese companies.
It might not seem like a big difference to you, but it’s an important one to me.
If you find it upsetting that the Chinese state imposes its will on the Chinese capitalist class, then you must really like capitalism, where the capitalist class imposes its will on the state.
Isn’t spotify European?
No, owned by Meta aka Facebook
Well actually IS mostly owned by europe entitities and individual shareholders. Only the founders and some europe capital mamooths had +50% of it
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TikTok, regardless of the country of origin, is known to be spyware on a much greater level than everything else on this list. It collects every click, interaction, and even your clipboard, among other things, sometimes while not using the app.
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Yes, this kind of data harvesting should be illegal for Google, Facebook, etc. Do something about it, US government. Unfortunately our next best option is to use FOSS where possible.
Nothing beats Instagram, Facebook, Google, Microsoft or Twitter in spyware. Have you heard of the Snowden revelations? These companies provide all their data to US spies.
- TikTok, regardless of the country of origin, is known to be spyware on a much greater level than everything else on this list. It collects every click, interaction, and even your clipboard, among other things, sometimes while not using the app.
Can you provide concrete proof that this is the case, when compared to other Western social media platforms? You sound like a scientologist.
ABC News does not provide the “cybersecurity report” they “obtained”. Usually this is a sign of Washington ordering news outlets to do their thing. Wired looks the same. And going by the video format of WSJ tabloid, it also has nothing of substance that technically breaks down things.
Yeah I remember when TikTok was first getting popular in the States, and some reverse engineer I followed on Twitter posted his findings about it, and it was honestly pretty terrifying. Like unfettered access to your device, regardless of permissions granted, and remote code execution capabilities kind of terrifying. I don’t think Spotify does that lmao
This mean android permissions don’t work and a Google should be hold accountable also
Like unfettered access to your device, regardless of permissions granted, and remote code execution capabilities kind of terrifying.
You realise you need to provide proof for Android sandbox bypassing, right? Or are you just going to be a racist liar?
TikTok, regardless of the country of origin, is known to be spyware on a much greater level than everything else on this list.
How do you support this assertion beyond just saying “it is known”?
Sure, here are some sources:
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/tiktok-data-app-report/story?id=97913249
From the very first link:
TikTok is not the only company that uses its pixels throughout the internet. The report found Google, Meta and Microsoft, among others, use these trackers.
Rigorous scholarship there, champ.
Literally none of those sources support your claim that:
TikTok, regardless of the country of origin, is known to be spyware on a much greater level than everything else on this list.
So at this point you’re just knowingly lying and hoping nobody bothers to check your links.
Source: Trust me bro [1]
[1] I don’t like people who look different from me.
Ahhh, typical Hexbear, jumping to the conclusion that I am racist because I said TikTok is bad without any citations. See the other reply in the thread for the citations.
TikTok is not the only company that uses its pixels throughout the internet. The report found Google, Meta and Microsoft, among others, use these trackers.
Your first link has a sentence expressly disproving your own thesis, so in addition to concluding you are a racist, I can also now conclude that you didn’t read your own sources.
I never said the other companies don’t also track you outside of the app.
TikTok, regardless of the country of origin, is known to be spyware on a much greater level than everything else on this list.
Justifying their attacks with claims of superiority, defending the obvious contradictions with equivalence. Classic motte and bailley.
Your citations did not support your claim at all, you’re just openly lying and hoping nobody bothers to check.
I’m not trying to openly lie. If you have any evidence that any of the other platforms are expressly worse than TikTok for privacy, please show me.
Goalpost shifting, your original post said that TikTok is known to be spyware on a much greater level than anything else on this list.
Your statement isn’t true even if you prove that Tiktok is the worst offender on the list. You need to prove that Tiktok is worse to a much higher degree than anything else on that list. Your own source straight out says that at least 3 of the other companies on the list engage in similar practices.
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Just install an alternative app Store like Aurora or install it directly from TikTok sites.
For open source projects, you can also use Obtainium or F-Droid
Aurora displays currently no app, be it anonymous or with login. Anyone knows why? I need it to reinstall my banking access app, dammit.
Aurora sometimes malfunctions. Try reinstalling it
Thanks, i use APKupdater for now.
Oh really? This ban won’t effect people who use (for example) F-Droid to get the app?? That’s great to hear tbh. Hopefully this stupid ass decision will have the effect of turning more people on to FOSS stuff more than it will actually prevent people from using TikTok.
I don’t think they will put it on fdroid, because it has to really be open source to be there, but there’s certainly other app stores which will have it.
How can a ban be enforced? It’s always thru Google app Store or IP, and you can always bypass both.
In Aurora Store there’s TikTok. You can install aurora store here:
In Worst case you can try finding the official tiktok .APK install somewhere
It’s really hard to bypass ip bans. Tik tok in India has been non existent since the ban.
You can use VPN (paid or free) for instance and if the ban is really badly done even by changing the DNS server (which is free) access can be restored.
Nope. You can’t access tiktok through vpn in India. You need a patched/modded app. I live in India and I’ve tried doing that. It’s a non-existent platform here. Bans will affect user engagement.
As a curiosity: how do the system know if you are in India? You said VPN doesn’t work so it’s not thru IP address. What’s it then?
ok, thanks for the info. I don’t know a lot about how this kind of thing works (clearly), I just try to use and support FOSS and “piracy” whenever possible.
“we will harvest your DNA and put a literal implant into your brain”
23andMe is much, much worse than the others due to the nature of the data it sells.
How do you mean?
I consider your personal genetic data to be a much more dangerous thing to sell, at least in the long term, compared to browser history.
Even if the corporation that holds onto the genetic data isn’t selling it for profit (which I doubt), they still likely have terrible security on their servers. How many data breaches have there been over the years?
I think it’s arguable. You can control thought with algorithms and feed addictions with browsing history. Both are still dangerous if abused.
Oh right. I forgot what 23&me was
Also, you don’t actually need to share your own data to be vulnerable. Some stupid relative sharing their genetic information is enough to have some ideas about you. I’m fortunate that it’s hasn’t caught on in my home country.
I feel like caring about heritage in this way is a pretty North-American (or maybe immigrant country in general) thing in the first place
My family won’t like the fact they’re not pure. Best not to kick that hornet’s nest.
BuySpy local.Makes me remember when UK and France invaded China and forced then to commercialize opium and destroy their country:
“The First Opium War was fought from 1839 to 1842 between China and Britain. It was triggered by the Chinese government’s campaign to enforce its prohibition of opium, which included destroying opium stocks owned by British merchants and the British East India Company. The British government responded by sending a naval expedition to force the Chinese government to pay reparations and allow the opium trade.[1] The Second Opium War was waged by Britain and France against China from 1856 to 1860, and consequently resulted in China being forced to legalise opium.”
Social media addiction is not quite the same thing as opium addiction
Of course not, but can also make people unproductive and by guiding the content you can make the whole population acquire stupid behaviours
I think you’re really misevaluating the (non)equivalence between how you’re crippled as an organism by opium addiction vs just having your attention fucked up by tiktok
Yes, of course.
In this case, what UK+France did to China at that time is much worse than what China is doing to the US now.
So it would be much more hypocritical if UK followed suit
Excuse me, but I have a hard time seeing how is these two events are related?
Hi, UK forced China to get their country destroyed, and no an UK-derived country is complaining that China is destroy them.
So in your analogy then Britain is the now China, and now U.S. is the then China? And TikTok is the opium released by China? Hence TikTok should be banned, if U.S. have the power to do so?
Apart from “should be banned”, you got my analogy right.
I mean if they ban it they are being hypocrites
fair, thanks for explaining.
Unless they’re implying that Chinese software will fail and bow down to “western software”, I’m not seeing a link either.
