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The Verge published this spam article about the “best printers of 2024” to demonstrate how terrible Google’s search results are. It now appears as the top non-sponsored post if you search “best printer” on Google.
I love a good, informative troll.
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Sigh. So many things in the world are like this. It’s not a bad idea, in theory, to favor more recent pages in search results. Finding 4 year old information is often not what you want. But in practice, when everyone knows this bias exists, they just fiddle with their pages daily to try to fool the algorithm. It must be aggravating to be Google, because as smart as they are, the entire world is engaged in an unending and ruthless quest to game their results for personal gain.
Yup, and that’s why we shouldn’t have one dominant search engine, but a few that all do things differently. That way gaming the system is a lot more difficult. But I guess that’s not the world we live in, because everyone wants to use “the best,” which means “the best” will eventually degrade due to everyone gaming it.
Can confirm, it’s still the top result under the sponsors. And it’s an amusing read.
you are a printer we are all printers
Technically we are highly complex, self replicating 3D printers.
I’m not, but my wife is
oh man, you made me think so many bad jokes about this… 😅
Yeah, well PC LOAD LETTER
Its printers all the way down…
Do any of us still use Google in this way though?
Sure maybe nanna still talks to google like an Oracle… “oh Google what is the best printer of 2024”
Yeah…have you ever had to buy new appliances? I just got a house, half my searches were for appliances, fittings and reviews and the results all sucked.
Well yeah I do have appliances, but I don’t think I’ve ever searched for product reviews for household appliances.
I just don’t find reviews for this stuff very helpful I guess.
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I just evaluate the available products based on price and features.
But how do you know what matters in some appliance you didn’t even know existed nevermind how it works?
I don’t really follow you sorry.
I can’t think of a time I’ve needed to buy an appliance I didn’t know existed nor how it works ?
Even if I didn’t really know anything that doesn’t really matter. Usually purchases are heavily influenced by my budget. It’s not a question of what features I need, it’s a question of which product is the most reliable given the amount I want to pay.
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Best breadcrumb from article:
I wanted to understand: what kind of human spends their days exploiting our dumbest impulses for traffic and profit? Who the hell are these [SEO/Google] people making money off of everyone else’s misery?
I don’t get ads in general. They don’t work. I never bought something that got presented to me from an ad because I know ads are deliberately lying to me, so the product they show is the first product I don’t consider purchasing.
Time to time i watch twitch from an iPad that I use only for that and an ad banner appeared of a weird but useful adapter for USBC. I clicked on it on purpose (first ad I clicked in a decade probably) the link wasn’t working, dead link. I was speechless.
The next good search engine will unironically be a Microsoft chatbot of some kind
You mean current Bing co-pilot?
Bing has gotten so much worse in the last 5 years, it’s not even better than google anymore
Search results aside, why can I no longer copy the result from Bing’s calculator anymore
I only ever knew Bing as being good for porn. Maybe a porn aficionado can confirm if it still is
Yeah Bing used to be lagging behind Google on censorship so you could find shit that Google wanted to hide once. Now, it all sucks.
Their video pages gives way fewer results than before
Just did a test searching “porn” and scrolled for 3 seconds before reaching the end of the results
If I do a search though I can get the same 3 results for 20 pages before finding a new one
Lol, Copilot is easily the dumbest AI assistant. It’s completely useless, it just spews bullshit.
It just parses the first few results
It’s the same as the search engine
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Omg I can’t believe they used AI to write this article 😡
People downvoting you without having read the article 😭
my only ask is that you make this article go viral by sharing it in faux-outrage that the EIC of The Verge has published an article partially generated by AI, because after the buttons I am going to include a bunch of AI-generated copy from Google’s Gemini in order to pad this thing out.
Y’all mfs didn’t read the article lmao
In my recent experience, it recommends shitty blogs loaded with adverts and keywords. Most annoyingly, it always recommends Fandom’s Wiki above better alternative wiki sites. My DuckDuckGo experience has surprisingly been more useful.
That aside, my Brother laser printer is still working great. No complaints.
Unfortunately DDG has been dogshit in my native language. Shame
I found that Qwant gives decent results in my native non English language, results similar in quality to Google, but way better than DDG which often just gives English results.
It has a partnership with bing. So sadly now it is mostly a bing clone. I have been using DDG for a decade. I noticed a distinct drop in search quality after the bing partnership.
My DuckDuckGo experience has surprisingly been more useful.
Yeah, right!? I remember that one or two years ago DDG was consistently worse than Google but recently Google’s quality has dropped off a cliff. Now when I don’t get the desired result in DDG and switch to Google, the results are usually just as bad or worse.
Yup. I constantly found myself appending !g for important queries that I needed an answer for right then and now. Google has stopped providing that commodity. It’s almost never worth it anymore to fall back to Google.
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What? Why do you think that?
No it has a partnership with bing. So sadly now it is mostly a bing clone.
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The only time google gets me better results than DDG now is if I have a really vague question, like “movie where the guy wears a trash bag on his leg and has a piña colada on the train to Milwaukee”
And super specific queries?
For me it’s programming issues. I guess devs know that doing SEO would shoot themselves in the foot.
Could you elaborate? You’re saying you’re going to google for programming issues, but at the same time devs don’t do SEO?
Sure. What I mean is that when I search for issues in duck duck go, I don’t see relevant results. But then I put “!g” and what I want (usually stack overflow or GitHub) comes to the top.
So it makes sense that programming sites do tags and keywords properly to optimize things for the user instead of trying promote their site no matter what.
At least that’s my guess anyway.
Stack overflow has been one of the consistently reliable googleable sites for decades.
It’s a shame Quora has strayed so far from their initial cloning of SO’s site. It seems to be turning into AskYahoo 2 fast from the results I’ve seen lately.
Most annoyingly, it always recommends Fandom’s Wiki above better alternative wiki sites.
use Indie Wiki Buddy extension to get rid of fandom.
https://getindie.wiki/This extension stopped working correctly for me some time ago. It just stopped redirecting to breezewiki correctly.
Hmm. Has it updated, and have you allowed it the correct site permissions? Every once in a while it’ll ask you to update the site modification permissions.
I’ve had zero issues with it on Firefox and DDG. May vary on other browsers and search engines though.
Or ublacklist to block any site: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublacklist/
That works too, but indie buddy works better because it gives you a direct link to the proper indie wiki page in search results rather than just blocking Fandom and leaving you with nothing.
Immortal Tanks, those Brother printers. Best in the biz.
What are better alternatives to fandom? I see the incumbents name get repeated more often than the alternative unfortunately.
The problem is that fandom tends to vacuum up and supersede the smaller wikis, and the SEO bullshit just makes it happen even faster. The answer to your question unfortunately is “it depends on the game/show/fandom”.
wiki.gg is where most of the wikis have transferred to, terraria for example
Use breezewiki extension. Redirects fandom articles to a frontend that removes their bullshit and replaces fandom with independant wikis when possible.
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That seems like a bug assuming you have your region selected/enabled? I’d report it to DDG.
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If I’m looking up something general, like some actor or tv show, then DDG is perfect. If im troubleshooting some weird software issue then i find it doesnt always list as many results, as if it hasnt indexed as many sites.
DDG at least now means I can search random shit without it suddenly being inserted into my social media algorithms like some kind of psychological torture.
If you have any tips or tricks for DDG please do share! I’m definitely getting better overall results there, but the local ones can still be a bit rough.
What do you mean by “local”? If you mean finding somewhere to go for lunch or the opening hours of a store, I recommend using the maps app on your phone (I prefer Apple Maps over Google, because it uses Yelp and TripAdvisor for reviews which are accurate than Google reviews… if I had an Android phone I’d probably install Yelp/TripAdvisor).
I’m no expert but this should be useful: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/duckduckgo-search-tricks-student/
My DDG searches have been absolute garbage for the past few months. About 75% of the time I have to re-search my keywords on Google to actually get a relevant result.
It’s bad enough that I’m about to switch back to Google.
I deleted their app and moved search engines, they got shit quick. So bad at their main usp. I was constantly fed hyper local results, local even with location off. And dont get me started on how bad it was for porn.
Try Startpage. I have just started using it so I can’t tell you how it compares. I also need to look up who owns it. But I have been told it has the same privacy qualities of DDG.
Funny. I primarily used Startpage for the last few years, but have had increasing problems with them providing bad/irrelevant results and frequently straight-up blocking my IP or requiring completion of a CAPTCHA before providing results. I switched to DDG, which has been working pretty well, and seems much better to me than it had when trying it a few years ago.
I used to like it, but there was one incident where it fed me links to phishing sites. Like all the results were malicious. I suspect they had an internal breach or the session was somehow hijacked. That was years ago, but it made me wary. It’s usually okay.
Good to know I haven’t fully switched yet. I am definitely going to look more closely at its parents company and where it has servers.
It depends on what your searching. For me programming questions are way better on google.
Also searching obvious questions like a country’s population, google still does its job there too.
Unfortunately, this has also been my DuckDuckGo experience for several months. I wish it wasn’t
That’s not been my experience. I’ve been using DDG for years, and when I first switched I would occasionally have to go find something on Google instead. That slowly fell off as the years went by because going to Google and getting better search results became rarer and rarer. It’s to the point now where I don’t even do it, unless I need to look at something on street view.
I second this, this has been my experience exactly. It’s gotten so bad that not only do I not need the Google fallback, but I’m starting to feel like the DDG results are better than the Google ones in the first place.
Better than Google now, but still not better than Google back then. It my experience at least.
Oh my god the Fandom wiki for minecraft uses the same little tab icon as the actual minecraft wiki but it has a fucking “are you an adult or child” popup EVERY SINGLE TIME a page loads
I hate it so much
Missing the days of Consumer Reports. I think the velocity of new products is too high for them to be relevant for more than a few months once they release a report anymore.
I still sign up with them when I’m researching bigger, or long-lasting, purchases. Cars, washing machine, and that sort of thing. I’m always a little annoyed at the price, but the content is SO MUCH better than any other online review source that I’m always happy with my decision in the end. Reddit comments are probably second, but I’ve found those to be littered with what seem to me to be suspiciously positive reviews for items that are not significantly better than their competition. I feel like I need to dial up my critical nature to 10 to fight against the echo chamber and/or the covert advertising.
Reddit posts could always be company astroturfing as well.
I saw a website that was selling Reddit bot services to companies that want to review their products. They would just send a swarm of bad accounts in there and make nice comments. Even replying to their own comments.
After that I stopped trusting almost every Reddit review (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
*Edit: meant to say bot accounts but leaving it
I saw it too and did the same thing.
I was shopping printers earlier, and reddit-based results had clear paid comments.
I get Consumer Reports free through my library. You may too!
And Wirecutter used to be good but they will occasionally point out how highly rated something is, and cross checking against falespot et al indicates a lot of fake reviews.
The demise of google search is by design. https://www.techspot.com/news/102765-who-prabhakar-raghavan-why-accused-killing-google-search.html TL;DR. Management noted that search revenue was not growing, so the head of google search Prabhakar Raghavan made it worse so you have to click more to get what you want. More clicks = more money = growth = happy investors = enshitification. Fuck you Prabhakar Raghavan.
Zitron, though, describes him as “a computer scientist class traitor who sided with the management consultancy sect.”
Based
And by making the search engine worse and worse, they open the opportunity to bring AI chat as a “savior”, and people will think it revolutionized internet search.
For the record though, I used bing for the duration of 2023, sort of as an experiment to use the ai assistant.
Bing search is worse that Google by a long shot. I almost always gave up and used Google.
well, that was last year, right?
I wouldn’t bet on Bing search results having gotten better since then, but I would bet on Google search results having gotten worse since then.The results of my experiment still seem to be true
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I see a lot of my friends actually use Bing through ChatGPT, and they seem to get better results than Google. That might be what Microsoft is actually optimizing Bing for
Honestly, I think almost everything else is worse than Google.
I set my default to duck duck go, and it’s getting better, but I still fall back on google with some regularity
Bing is even more heavily monetized and encrusted with garbage than Google is.
From the article…
Don’t feel compelled to do it; my only ask is that you make this article go viral by sharing it in faux-outrage that the EIC of The Verge has published an article partially generated by AI, because after the buttons I am going to include a bunch of AI-generated copy from Google’s Gemini in order to pad this thing out.
I have to admit, it was an interesting read, not quite like anything I’ve ever read before, for a review.
I honestly can’t tell if this is just some genius way of sliding in some AI generated content into a review and getting it to pass our review, or just an editor-in-chief really frustrated with Google’s search algorithm paying attention to manipulation by others, so trying to really get their stuff out there for us to see.
Either way, it’s definitely worth the read.
As far as Brother printers go, I own an all-in-one laser that’s over a decade old, and it’s still going strong. And it actually works with Linux to boot. I do hate though that they do some squirrely stuff to try to get you to buy a new toner cartridge early, but if you mask sensors and such, then an existing toner will work forever.
The guy who wrote it is the editor-in-chief.
The guy who wrote it is the editor-in-chief.
Yep. I mentioned that in my comment…
or just an editor-in-chief really frustrated
Could you elaborate on your point?
He’s the one that would be doing the review. It isn’t about trying to “sneak in” AI content
It isn’t about trying to “sneak in” AI content
But he says right in the article that he’s including AI content at the bottom of the article, to pad it out.
an article partially generated by AI, because after the buttons I am going to include a bunch of AI-generated copy from Google’s Gemini in order to pad this thing out.
My point is if he’s being honest and that’s the true reason, or just being sneaky and trying to slip in AI content into a human written article.
Well if he announces it, I’m not sure how it’s being sneaky and slipping it in. But either way, what would that achieve?
But either way, what would that achieve?
Us being more acceptive of, and not belligerent to, AI written articles.
Nilay Patel - the editor in chief is anti-AI especially when it comes to article content. He doesn’t allow anyone at the company to use generated content except when they are writing an article about AI and even then only to demonstrate a point - e.g. “here’s a comparison of two LLMs with the same prompt”. It was also his decision to stop AI’s from crawling any content on their website.
He used AI to pad the article because that’s what real spam articles do. It had nothing to do with acceptance.
The thing is that the AI text is atrocious and vapid. It takes up a lot of space and says
“Laser printers are better in every way minus full color than inkjets, but are bigger and more expensive than inkjet printers.”
The trick is that AI took 12 paragraphs and using a list incorrectly to do it instead of a sentence. And the editor calls it out for that.
And the editor calls it out for that.
Not disputing that. My point, tongue-in-cheek, was if an editor says “hey I’m going to pad my article with a bad AI written portion”, then we lower our guard, and are more acceptive of including AI write ups in reviews.
It’s a gag, I promise. He’s talked about it on their podcast
they do some squirrely stuff to try to get you to buy a new toner cartridge early
My Brother is newer than yours (the cheapest one I could get that prints on both sides of the paper), and has a setting to toggle how it behaves when toner is low.
The default is to pause printing until you replace the toner - honestly that’s not entirely wrong. Having the printer run out of toner half way through an important print job could be a disaster.
The alternative mode is to just show a “low toner” warning badge whenever you print a document. That’s what I use, but I also check if it printed properly before closing the document which a lot of people don’t do. It looks like this:
As far as I know it’s just a simple counter - how many pages have you printed since it was replaced. Obviously that’s never going to be particularly accurate.
Having the printer run out of toner half way through an important print job could be a disaster.
What, like the printer would explode or something similar kind of disaster?
Or the kind of where the printout doesn’t come out well, and you put a new cartridge in, and then you reprint and it looks fine, type of disaster?
One of my housemates has a brother printer and I was testing some stuff out on LMDE and noticed it was available to print to. No searching for it or driver to be installed or anything. I don’t actually need to print but that’s pretty cool.
One of my housemates has a brother printer and I was testing some stuff out on LMDE and noticed it was available to print to. No searching for it or driver to be installed or anything. I don’t actually need to print but that’s pretty cool.
People keep missing that I’m talking about a all-in-one, and not just a simple printer-only.
I never had a problem with the printing part of the all-in-one printer, but the scanning and faxing stuff required the Brother driver support, and that wad not natively supported, or were supposed to be supported but it didn’t work well, or at all. There were issues with 32-bit versus 62-bit libraries, etc.
Took years to get to a point where the brother drivers would just install and everything would work right. And not everything ever worked right from native Linux.
The comment I replied to didn’t mention you had any issues. I just wanted to mention something I had noticed that I thought was cool. Not trying to get into a debate about it.
There are very few printers that don’t work with Linux. Linux has drivers to interface with most of them through whatever means you like, right in the kernel.
That’s one of the reasons my android phone (Linux kernel, remember) is better at finding and queuing up prints on a network printer than any windows machine I’ve ever used.
I just hit share on a document, choose print… And then it just works.
There are very few printers that don’t work with Linux.
I was speaking with the all-in-one types, that includes scanners and fax machines.
Most printer companies don’t make their drivers work well with Linux (or at the very least used to not), and even Brother was in that same boat early on.
But as of late they’re much better, so when you run a Brother installer for the drivers it just installs and works now, where in the past you had to worry about 32 bit versus 64 bit libraries in the OS and how they interact with the brother drivers, etc., etc.
I have an MFC-9340 and have also run into this problem. The drivers available in cups allow me to either print two-sided in b&w, or print single-sided in color (at least for the drivers that work at all with the printer). I finally broke down and installed the binary from Brother to get it working fully, but it’s annoying that I can’t just use a generic driver with this printer.
Google used to list sites with backlinks highly, it was their first ever search algorithm iirc. Once people learned you could game that by planting useless backlinks, Google realised it was a bad idea.
Somehow, they’ve reinvented this all over again with parasite SEO that fundamentally works the same way. All they did was add some “domain ranking”. Now, unreliable-but-popular sites coughredditcough will always score highly regardless of quality, because Google deemed them superior.
reddit is a very good search resource though because it has 15 years of real people giving real information. I imagine reddit from here on out will be going hard on the enshitification train so it’s value as a search resource will rapidly decline.
Anything post-2022, and probably post-2020, is suspect on Reddit because it became abundantly clear how steerable it was and how easy to generate sales as long as you didn’t do anything too “suspicious”. Current ‘ad guides’ tell advertisers not to link things because just saying the name reads as more authentic.
Before that it was legitimately people discussing, e.g., the best flashlight for x-y-z purposes. But a decent amount of old stuff has been gutted by people deleting their posts/accounts.
You weren’t around for the 2016 presidential elections.
Politics on Reddit has always been shit. Product reviews and recommendations were good. How-to’s and troubleshootings that don’t fit on stackoverflow are still good.
After January 2015 it was a downhill slalom.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
It’s been over a year since I last told you to just buy a Brother laser printer, and that article has fallen down the list of Google search results because I haven’t spent my time loading it up with fake updates every so often to gain the attention of the Google search robot.
Pointing out that incentive structure and the culture that’s developed around it seems to make a lot of people mad, which is also interesting!
Both of them have reliably printed return labels and random forms and pictures for my kid to color for years now, and I have never purchased replacement toner for either one.
Neither has fallen off the WiFi or insisted I sign up for an ink-related hostage situation or required me to consider the ongoing schemes of HP executives who seem determined to make people hate a legendary brand with straightforward cash grabs and weird DRM ideas.
Don’t feel compelled to do it; my only ask is that you make this article go viral by sharing it in faux-outrage that the EIC of The Verge has published an article partially generated by AI, because after the buttons I am going to include a bunch of AI-generated copy from Google’s Gemini in order to pad this thing out.
Brother laser printers are strong contenders, especially for black and white printing needs, but weigh the pros and cons against other options like inkjets before deciding.
The original article contains 428 words, the summary contains 239 words. Saved 44%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Ok, this summary won’t be useful in this article 😂
Kagi
Paying for search aligns incentives better than free search.
It’s also the best results from a search engine I’ve had in a decade.
Theoretically, sure, but I’m not paying what they’re asking. $10/month for unlimited searches is ridiculous, and $5 is still unpalatable even if it was unlimited (which it’s not).
I’d pay if it was something like $1-2/month for 500+ searches.
