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History is written by the victors.
Yes, this is the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters.
They didn’t kill the balrog. Gandalf merely defeated its physical form, but Durin’s Bane is a Maia, an immortal, spiritual being.
Yeah so what’s it doing now, no body, bit annoying?
I mean Sauron had his physical form destroyed but still managed to be more than a bit of an annoyance I’d say.
Just wondering what they’re up to.
Just a wee bit more than an annoyance. An inconvenience, perhaps?
I’d argue the Balrog was more Durin’s people’s doing. Fellowship pretty much just wandered into a clusterfuck already in progress there.
Like a right wing spin on proles trying to live unenslaved lives.
I think you could make the argument that Orcs are just a bioweapon used to attempt genocide on the races of men.
Ah yes. This unterelven rethoric justifys the slaughtering of millions of orcs on cataclysmic scale
Unironically, yes. They were built for the purpose of war, they must be dismantled like any other unethical weapon. If one of them accidentally develops level of awareness greater than that of a child then maybe put them on trial first, idk. TBH I don’t think they’d even care with the Dark Lord gone, they don’t seem to do well without leadership and just act like extra hungry goblins.
and just act like extra hungry goblins
Goblins and orcs are the same thing in Tolkien lore
All goblins are orcs but not all orcs are goblins, the Orcs of Misty Mountain are expressly Goblins as they live in places like Goblin Town and are lead by The Great Goblin.
Per the wiki
A clear illustration that Tolkien considered goblins and orcs to be the same thing, the former word merely being the English translation of the latter, is that in The Hobbit (the only one of Tolkien’s works in which he usually refers to orcs as goblins) Gandalf asks Thorin if he remembers Azog the goblin who killed his grandfather Thror, while in all his other writings Tolkien describes Azog as a “great Orc”.
I believe if we the readers can clearly differentiate two groups then his intentions as the author hardly matter, so I think the only way to decide this argument would be to see if the origins or physiology of the two are actually any different. I could be fuzzy on the topic but I am pretty sure all of the Orcs in Middle Earth during the time of Mordor were shaped by the Dark Lord with exception of Goblins hiding in the mountains who had their own separate society.
Regardless my statement was that the Orcs without a leader just start acting like overly hungry goblins, which stands even if you think the two terms are the same.
wait, we’re slandering goblins now?
If I call a zombie a rotting extremely hungry man then have I insulted all mankind? Nice reactionary bs, mate.
They are a virus, exterminating them is no different than curing the flu
Good and evil are a matter of perspective.
Bruh, Sauron’s litterally evil on middle earth, cut from wikipedia: “Tolkien, while denying that absolute evil could exist, stated that Sauron came as near to a wholly evil will as was possible”
In every good story or movie, it takes an obvious bad guy.
Evil people in real life aren’t so obvious.
Some are more obvious than others
I’d say that we’ve had some pretty evil guys through history. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Franco, Pol Pot, King Leopold 1 of Belgium, Kim il-sung, Putin
so you’re arguing with someone who says it’s a matter of perspective by saying “nuh uh, id say my perspective is ____” hmmmm
why are people so uncomfortable with the reality that judgments exist only in the mind and not the world? that doesn’t make them less important. quit over valuing the real!
Don’t you think that some stuff’s universally just wrong? For instance raping and murdering without any provocation whatsoever is always wrong. Ted Bundy was a bad man.
Oh of course I have my opinions! I’m only human. But where does “badness” actually exist in the world? It only exists in our judgments. Everyone on earth could agree that he’s bad, but that doesn’t actually mean anything on its own. It comes with social consequences, but those also come from our judgments. There’s nothing in the world that says that Ted Bundy is bad. There’s also nothing that says he is tall or short or smelly or kind. The universe is utterly indifferent to such things.
This is not a wishy-washy relativism argument. It’s actually quite the opposite. I am stating that social constructs like these judgments are actually so powerful that major parts of human experience are products of human minds. It’s just that the universe is just so fundamentally, radically indifferent to them.
At the end of the day, Lord of the Rings is about a bunch of people fighting and dying. It’s the meanings that we attach to those narratives that give it its glory. And it’s fun to see this meme flip it on its head. Poor orcs!
Well, I’ll keep that in mind. Right now I still think that some exist like Sauron just to be bad.
Bro, all these leaders had whole countries supporting them.
They thought they were doing good.
In their perspective. Not ours.
To understand the reason for the seemingly “evil”, you have to understand their perspective.
How the fuck can you deny that Pol Pot wasn’t evil? He literally killed a fourth of his country in a genocide. I’ll never understand people who’re defending the most evil people on the basis that everything’s subjective. Some people are simply not good.
I don’t know him and what he’s done.
Well he caused the Cambodian genocide. The. There’s king Leopoldo 2 of Belgium who committed perhaps the worst atrocities ever in Congo.
yes, the author wrote the books as a struggle btwn good vs evil, which makes all the stuff in the meme okay.
But what if we strip away those concepts? that’s the whole point of this meme! why would you ackshully this comment 🤣
yeah I appreciate this meme. one could say the fellowship did all this awful shit, but because the struggle was viewed as good vs evil, it’s all permissible
Disturbers of the peace.
The list of bullet points sound like they’re describing some nations I know of.
One man’s terrorist is another man’s fellowship
smth smth “one person’s terrorist” smth smth
“Terrorism is the war of the poor and powerless. War is the terrorism of the rich and powerful.”
War is the terrorism of the rich and powerful
I thought it was the police
the police are one of the tools the rich wield
Their music is not everyones taste but come on now :)
No, that’s the militia of the rich and powerful.
The Last Ringbearer, Kirill Yeskov (1999)
And the translation is available for free (scroll down for links) https://ymarkov.livejournal.com/280578.html?
well now I know what I’m doing tonight
Broke a damn and flooded and drowned hundreds.
Made a recreational sport out of slaughtering as many Orcs as possible
Killed an endangered species as part of their blood sport.
“Millenia pass, but orc slaying remains a unending pleasure”
That was arguably a separate faction, although the fellowship did do their best to inspire them to acts of war.
The problem with “The Empire did nothing wrong” contrarian gags is that actual fascists fucking love it.
drove a balrog out of its natural habitat
Akshully, they tried to keep it there. Imprisoned because of its religious beliefs! Killed while attempting escape!
Just like Nazist did…
you might enjoy The Last Ringbearer by Kirill Yeskov.
having noticed what sub I’m in, y’all probably already know about it.
Damn, I came to post this. Fun thought experiment of a book, and the ebook is (by necessity) free!
