I’ve noticed in the Linux community whenever someone asks for a recommendation on a laptop that runs Linux the answer is always “Get a Thinkpad” yet Lenovo doesn’t seem to be a big Linux contributor or ally. There’s also at least six Linux/FOSS-oriented computer manufacturers now:
So what gives? Why the love for a primarily Windows-oriented laptop when there are better alternatives?
Do any of these have:
- As nice a keyboard, that I don’t have to worry about spilling a cup of coffee on.
- Track point or similar.
- Ability to survive a fall down a flight of stairs.
- 4:3 or 16:10 aspect ratio.
- Ports.
While being built with repairability in mind?
I day dream about stuffing the guts of a modern laptop inside with a USB hub and an enormous battery, but that’s a huge undertaking.
Cost and availability.
Most of those laptops cost over 1000€ if not even closer to 2000. And they don’t seem to ship to all countries.
While you can get a good used Thinkpad for 500€ everywhere in the world.
And that’s with shipping included.
And the CPU + RAM upgrade.
Recently I had to decide what laptop I buy and I decided to buy an used Thinkpad T480s for 260€
I was browsing in the Framework and Slimbook websites but the price it’s more than three times. It’s true that they are new and the Thinkpad is used, but I was looking for Framework and Slimbook in second-hand websites but I didn’t find nothing.
Had a bad experience with System76 in the past.
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Didn’t Lenovo like 15 years ago make a line of desktops that shipped with some redhat derivative installed? Or am I thinking of something else?
They still sell with Fedora pre-installed
i think I saw a few only a couple of years ago
I believe Dell even has some models that come with Linux preinstalled.
Dell, HP and Lenovo can deliver with Linux pre-installed
Which HP models have good official Linux support these days? I thought they had stopped supporting the one(s) they did and I’ve had a bunch of bad experiences generally :(.
Not just deliver - they support them. I’ve got a Dell micro-PC running as an Ubuntu Server and it regularly receives BIOS and firmware updates from Dell through the default fwupgdr-mgr.
I wouldn’t trust a manufacturer-installed system to be honest
Given the size of the userbase I doubt they’d invest in developing and adding preinstalled similar adware as their windows OEM systems but you never know
Better order it without OS
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15 years ago I would have been surprised to hear that Thinkpads are cheap laptops !
Because these are small shops that have limited availability outside North America, and are fairly expensive compared to Thinkpads which are widely used by corporations, and can be found pretty cheaply.
Exactly this - none of those vendors will sell to me, but I can get a ThinkPad shipped from any of the major local retailers, or direct from Lenovo themselves. I’d love a Framework, and I’m trying to set it up so I can get one shipped to a friend in the UK who will be visiting next year but I’m sceptical that the timing will work out or that Framework will accept my credit card
My thinkpad model officially supports linux, so there is no problem there. It is also much cheaper than any of those brands, and it’s also available from the regular stores.
Officially? Got a link?
At least to my understanding. My model is the T14 Gen 1 (AMD). But I would recommend checking newer models.
A few points that indicates this:
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It’s possible to order it with linux preinstalled:
In limited countries or regions, Lenovo offers customers an option to order computers with the preinstalled Linux® operating system. - User Guide, Appendix C
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Ubuntu 20.04 certification: https://ubuntu.com/certified/202006-27980
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RHEL 8.3 certification: https://catalog.redhat.com/hardware/detail/71625
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There’s a “Linux Certification” page (whatever that means): https://support.lenovo.com/au/en/solutions/pd500492
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The BIOS software comes with linux instructions. Though I just use whatever is available with fwupd, which is a CLI application but has GUI support through Gnome with gnome-firmware.
More info about linux support here, under “Notebooks and Laptops”: www.lenovo.com/linuxA million edits later: I got confused by what the product ID was but I think I finally figured it out.
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It comes down to price. You can buy used ThinkPads and replacement parts for them quite cheap a lot of the time.
It’s been a while since I’ve looked at devices from places like System 76 but if I recall correctly they are still over a thousand dollars when a used ThinkPad T440P for example can be found for around two hundred dollars.
Framework laptops are interesting and I hope eventually the modularity allows the components to go down in price. Right now I was looking at a 16 (which all sold out within 3 hours of pre-order launch) but it comes out to easily over 3k CAD for a disassembled kit, skimping on RAM and an SSD.
yoo I didn’t know about used/refurbished Thinkpads being that cheap, I just checked and indeed you can find a T480 with 16GB of RAM for $248 on Amazon!
You can find them for much cheaper than that on eBay. I just got my wife a T490 for $125 on eBay. No SSD, but I had one sitting around.
Would also recommend the T480. Got mine for around €280 total (including shipping from ebay).
If youre looking definitely try them out
T480 is solid as hell, had one as new in my last job, a bit heavier but very serviceable, would recommend.
Replacement parts are a bitch though. At least when it comes to batteries. The only battery I’ve seen with any positive reviews are Green Cell which is European, so shipping is absurd, and Duracell which no longer produces thinkpad batteries.
I can confirm this with personal experience. Wife has T470 (if memory serves, something around that) for 100€. That was from previous work and they offered my old laptop for cheap, so it doesn’t really count as average, but not uncommon either at least around here. I got myself T495 a while ago for 299€ from “public” market and have been purchasing couple years old thinkpads for decades now. There’s plenty of those available, they work just fine for the workload we have for laptops (I got a separate desktop for more power hungry applications) and they’ve proven to be pretty reliable workhorses since the brand was owned by IBM.
Framework specially is really interesting approach and I’d love to test to their hardware, but they don’t have Finnish keyboard available just yet and I can get several used thinkpads for the price of one framework, so as long as I’m using my own hard earned money I rather spend it on a known brand where I already know what I’m getting into and spend considerably less money while doing so.
Also with linux thinkpads tend to work just fine or at least there’s documentation and howtos to get everything working.
Where did you find a t495 for that price of you don’t mind me asking?
Taitonetti.fi. Local shop which refurbishes and sells previously leased computers, so their selection varies quite a bit, but I’ve been a happy customer for years and they have frequent sales for the ‘last of the batch’ computers where mine came as well. However I think they don’t ship to outside of Finland, so it might not be so helpful for you.
T440P is cheap for a reason. Personally I don’t want a 6 pound laptop with a decade old CPU and a crappy TN screen. Something like a used T480 is reasonable though I guess
I use an early 2010s Thinkpad, with Ubuntu, and I can play Minecraft pretty well on it. It’s great. I don’t often carry it places, it’s a desk laptop, but I don’t know of any other affordable laptop that would have such a long useful lifespan. If you know of any, please tell me, but my experiences has made me quite the Lenovo loyalist.
I also agree with this sentiment. I got a used t440p which I used for years in school before upgrading to the framework 13. I still love my old thinkpad, but its now my cheap in home media server. I would agree that old thinkpad are easy to find and a cheap (but still very useable and still to some extent repairable) option for work and school.
Because not one of those laptops have a TrackPoint style mouse.
I love clits and nipples but I always found that nub so weird.
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You mean the nipple mouse?
Could be worse.
https://xkcd.com/243/I always called it a nub. I haven’t used one as an adult but I could definitely see myself calling it the clit mouse.
Nub is correct, also nubs are best laptop mouse once you get to know them.
Edit, Lenovo now calls them “Caps” and that is lame.
What makes them the best? I find them very difficult to use effectively.
Same. I had a couple of Thinkpads ages ago and just couldn’t get used to it. Not enough control over acceleration and deceleration. I guess it is nice to not have to relocate your hand from the kbd all the time but…yeah.
A few benefits:
- You turn off the touch pad and then you can type without hitting the mouse
- Using the laptop in awkward positions (crammed behind a rack for example) is a lot easier
- Minimal movement needed to use, not going to yeet a coffee over.
- Once you get the hang of them they seem more responsive then a touch pad and a bit more precise (opinion I know)
In France I’ve always call this a clit or clito since they exist (80s? 90s?)
In the Netherlands, I’ve always known it as “the clit”, the same goes for my dad who’s been in the IT since the 80s.
the nippleclit
