I can’t wait for the surge in cheap PCs available to buy and install Linux on. Please, Microsoft, lock down Windows more.
Install Linux already
what a bizare take to suggest hoping for ReactOS to mature before using Linux as daily driver. A lot of the current reactOS app compatibility depends on WINE implementation anyway.
ReactOS is a very fun project, but anyone expecting it to be a real useable OS is absolutely mad. It’s been going for almost 30 years, and they’re almost at the point of binary compatibility with Windows Server 2003…
Last I checked it didnt play very nicely in real hardware, and required running it in a VM
Because it’s so hard to use Rufus and make a win 11 install that bypasses the tpm requirements.
That and having to manually upgrade CUs. It just doesn’t scale. It’s easier for most people to buy a new machine.
It’s easier for most people to just continue using their current PC past the end of support.
having to use hacks to get an operating system installed shouldn’t be needed.
requiring a Microsoft account to use Windows also shouldn’t even have been considered.
Cause your use case is the only one that exists, of course.
Companies are reluctant to use this method as theres no telling what will break due to TPM being disabled. Some will still use it as they have no other choice though.
ROFL no. I once knew someone who got offered an upgrade from whatever to Windows 10, only for it to fail half way through because their CPU was some weird corner case that the OS thought it supported but when it was time to boot… didn’t.
Also if you want to talk e-waste, look no further than Chromebooks.
Windows 11 has problems, this is hardly one of them.
Chromebooks sound good in theory but fall short because kids are great at breaking them and there is a lack of repairability.
There is also chromeos being kinda ass
Idk about the lack of repairability, those things are really easy and cheap to fix in my experience. They are at least no less repairable than 95% of laptops on the market.
Depends on what. The most common thing i see is that the kids mess with either the keyboard and or the screen, which you’re basically forced to scavenge another broken Chromebook for because the replacement parts are pretty much like half the cost of the chromebook
If it’s something simple then yea I agree, but kids are menaces against their chromebook so damage usually ends up being on the extreme side.
I couldn’t bear to make e-waste, so I repaired two c.~2012 era chromebooks earlier this year. The end result was equal parts rewarding experience and a complete was of my time xD. Those sandy bridge cpus are sloooow
Chromebooks and Apple products hitting EoL for sure.
I had a Windows 10 laptop that has a CPU not supported by Windows 11. It’s not e-waste, though. It just runs Ubuntu now.
This is on top of potential tariffs which if enacted will make PC costs skyrocket. I feel like a lot of people are just going to skip the generation like they do with every other windows OS version. They will just keep windows 10 forever kinda like XP did back in the day.
I’m pretty hesitant to find the time to install and learn Linux but I’m VERY hesitant to upgrade to Win11. I’m having trouble understanding what the selling point for it is over Win10. I feel like it used to be clear and exciting to upgrade but they’ve managed to make this feel sort of dreadful.
There is no particular selling point. That’s why they force it.
Well yeah, w11 has no selling point, that’s why they’re forcing you to switch by removing support by autumn 2025
The article focuses a lot on the security of the boot process, but there’s no reason the TPM can’t be used for DRM as well (as an example, https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5283799). It’s correct when it points out the locked down nature of consoles and phones.
We could conceivably be in for a future where Windows refuses to run code that’s not validated even after the OS boots. Or where it sees pirated software on the system and refuses to function in some manner until the software is removed/corrected to its liking.
There are so many possibilities here and all of them are bad.
- Forced online accounts so Microsoft always knows when/where you login
- Stored encryption keys so Microsoft could theoretically provide access to any computer the government requests
- Telemetry already reporting god only knows what metrics about what and how you use your software
- Forced AI that literally watches everything you do on your screen storing it in a known location making for a valuable target and also potentially/likely being used to create more telemetry and insights into your habits
- Eventual full control over your hardware by enforcing “trusted platform” restrictions
It’s so fucking brazen I’m gobsmacked. As an elder Millennial, I get it, I can already hear most of you tallying in your head if having to care about your OS is gonna be the final straw . This is no longer a nerdy request to please use Linux, this is a five alarm fire. Add to all this how much Microsoft is in bed with the US government and potential issues with all that on the horizon and I really, truly believe it’s time to switch, for your own good.
Please. Even if you’re not going to run out and install Linux tomorrow, you need to start mentally preparing yourself for the inevitability of the task. Get yourself accustomed to the idea and when you’re ready to dip your toes in, just know how many resources are out there for you.
And to the Linux community out there, there are going to be a lot of newcomers who don’t have the technical skills to undertake this and enjoy/appreciate this in the same way as you do. Be kind to them, the need for us to support each other has never been greater. Please.
I’ve been daily-driving Linux for over a decade at this point so you don’t need to convince me, and I’ll just spin up a Windows VM for things aren’t picky about baremetal OS installs, but also don’t play nice with WINE.
DRM is already the primary purpose of trusted compute if you read shareholder meeting transcripts; security is a marketing side effect.
Ya boy Richard Stallman agrees and has been saying this for years (although this article is more recentish), https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.en.html
“Treacherous computing” is a more appropriate name, because the plan is designed to make sure your computer will systematically disobey you. In fact, it is designed to stop your computer from functioning as a general-purpose computer. Every operation may require explicit permission.
As of 2022, the TPM2, a new “Trusted Platform Module”, really does support remote attestation and can support DRM. The threat I warned about in 2002 has become terrifyingly real.
Actual, honest to god reasons to upgrade to Windows 11 are already vague and questionable. Your average user probably doesn’t even see any particular reason and only perceives the nuisance of it. But it’s hard to fully close your iron fist around a platform when TPM enablement is so sparse in the consumer space. So what better way to do it than a mandatory OS upgrade with it as a system requirement and assure all (or a vast majority of) systems align at once?
Of course there are ways for stubborn users to skirt those requirements, but that misses the primary point of Trusted Computing. While the OS may baseline function to some degree, there’s no telling what functionality may be crippled by not being in a trusted state. EDIT: For example, this could easily tie into games with anti-cheat such that they will refuse to run on Windows 11 unless TPM is enabled.
I don’t know the future any better than anyone else, I’m just trying to read the winds at the moment. I suspect they may not try to pull the entire trap closed all at once and that Windows 11 may continue to more or less function as we’ve seen past iterations. But the pieces will be in place by then and it’s only a matter of time before some greedy exec gives the word …
I suspect they may not try to pull the entire trap closed all at once and that Windows 11 may continue to more or less function as we’ve seen past iterations
Microsoft will be taking a page from Google playbook. Google has be gradually reducing the “openness” of their android platform. They now have these “security checks” enforced on android. Meaning that it’s trivial for an application to determine if the phone a “genuine android” or not.
This’ll trickle into webbrowser too (if it’s not already in browsers like chrome). It’s only a matter of time before web pages will be able to determine if they’re running on a “secure OS” and fail to run. It’ll start out with your banking website, then expand to shopping websites, ultimately every page will enforce it (“oh, I see you have an unauthorized browser plug in installed. We care about your security, therefore we won’t run. Please restore your device to it’s secure defaults.”)
This future is so horrible and Linux with its 4% market share won’t change anything.
Agreed.
And what’s particularly galling about this is that it’s never made any sense to me. Are you telling me an Android app, on compromised hardware or otherwise, could send malformed data that would for instance deposit $1M into my bank account? That doesn’t sound like an issue of local security. An app is just a frontend, all validation would still be through the banking infrastructure.
You’re making up scenarios so you can get outraged over them and push linux lol.
TPM was known to be a DRM Trojan horse in 2004. Then everyone forgot about that fact.
Sure, pushing Linux is just a new angle, but don’t think for a second that TPM has any purpose other than making your own computer trust a cabal of corporations over you, the owner. And if there is a critical mass of TPM standardized hardware, such that a “trusted” environment is the standard, it will lock you out of major use cases on all “untrusted” systems, including Linux.
And that deserves a lot of outrage.
Hey man, yeah, I get it. I worry a lot about sounding like a conspiracy theorist; a real Chicken Little.
But when I look internally and ask myself why I make these posts, why I conspire so much about unknown futures, I come to two most likely outcomes:
- I’m trying to trick you into installing Linux for some reason. Selfishly I guess if there’s a larger userbase demanding support for things then I can expect better support for myself. Or I’m just trying to sound like a pompous smartass in front of internet strangers. But those are a little obtuse.
- I see a bunch of people standing in what I perceive (possibly incorrectly, but nonetheless) a trap and I’m shouting, “Hey, get outta there now before it springs!” because I have general empathy towards other people.
Worst case I’m wrong and I look a fool. I really don’t have a problem with that. I know who I’d trust if the positions were switched 💯
Didn’t Apple brick ipods if they had pirated audio files?
Didn’t Microsoft push a few updates that BSOD Windows OS if you weren’t setup for their OneDrive cloud?
Doesnt seem very made up.
I had an ipod that was filled with “pirated” (ripped) audio files, never owned a single itunes purchased song, and have used Windows on many computers that didnt have OneDrive setup and never experienced either of those.
Do you have some sources for those cause I’d be interested to read about them.
I currently have a modded iPod mini with 128Gb of music, around 1Gb of which was bought from iTunes.
It works perfectly fine. Remarkably so, in fact. Damn things 20 years old, I can plug it into my M2 Macbook and sync music like always.
Strange cause that must be bricked according to the person I replied to lol
Apple are shithouses under Cook, but they’re not that bad.
Yet.
This may come to shock you but not everyone has the same experiences as you.
Which is why I asked you for some sources for your claims. I told you my experience and that I’d never heard of what you’re saying happened.
So do you have any sources or did you just make it up?
It’s not really a TPM problem, my Dell has TPM2.0 which is perfectly compatible with win11. My problem is the CPU (i5 6th gen) missing some stuff for modern device drivers or something, that is preventing me from upgrading win10 to win11.
Yes I dual boot MX Linux on it :)
It may be a bold of me to say, but I hold the controversial opinion that I don’t really give a shit which computer OS you use. If you can use a mouse and keyboard to navigate a desktop environment then 🤙 you are ahead of the curve at this point.
Fucking Christ, you have choices people. If windows won’t meet your needs anymore, USE SOMETHING ELSE! Why do these people pretend there are no alternatives to windows?!
There are no alternatives to Windows. You will join us. Embrace ☀️. Extend 🌈.Ȩ̷͙͙̺̰̦͊̏͜x̷̱̹̃t̶̡͉̍̋̌̿͗̈́͘í̴̡̼̱̫͚̺͙̉ň̶̛̮͠ģ̴̛̹̮͎̏̓u̷̢̢̜͊̆̈̉͐̑i̸̛̪͔̤̰͚̾͌̈̍͜ͅs̶̳̜͎͓͚̣̼̖͌̇̈́͊̌͋h̷͉̹̄͐̋̐͛🌚.
Think about all the people with computers that don’t know about Linux.
Why do these people pretend there are no alternatives to windows?!
They’d have to admit they were wrong.
Most people are incapable of doing this unless they literally have no choice.
Debian user here. All people have a doorkey. Some people have an alarm system as well. Infosec is about ’ what do you have and what do you know '. So in principle TPM is a defencible argument. You should absolutely bail from MS products for different reasons. Like privacy. Your PC isn’t yours anymore. Your NPU will reduce THEIR costs. Etc.
Don’t enter Linux thinking its a drop in replacement. Go slow and do ‘ships in the night’. Move data over to the new ship. Start embracing OSS on windows, it’ll be familiar when you finally bail. G luck.
TPM is the wedge to put a cryptoprocessor in your computer so program can finally operate under the tyrannical scrutiny of users and the pirates using ghidra !
I’m grateful to Microsoft for Windows 11 providing me a bunch of free machines to stick in my basement and put Linux on.
I can hear the ‘just use Linux/BSD/etc.’ crowd already clamoring in the comments, and will preface this by saying that although I use Linux and BSD on a nearly daily basis, I would not want to use it as my primary desktop system for too many reasons to go into here.
Still though.
🐧
I would not want to use it [Linux or BSD] as my primary desktop system for too many reasons to go into here.
https://twitter.com/MayaPosch/status/1809311467545735654
The Linux kernel not having a stable driver ABI is why Linux will never amount to anything outside of some embedded and server applications.
— Maya Posch, author of the submitted article
I guess maybe that’s their reason.
never
That tweet must be some kind of joke, because I don’t know what to make of the many people who use Linux outside of embedded and server applications. And it doesn’t even have to be my hearsay because the Steam Deck is exactly such a device.
In fact, I have a USB audio interface which I use near daily on Linux that has no driver support in modern Windows, because the vendor only provided beta support for Windows 7 as that OS was releasing. By Windows 8 it was unsupported. So the journey of that device is XP->Stable, Vista->Stable, 7->Unstable, 8±> Non-functioning. If the driver ABI were so stable, why does my device not work on Windows anymore?
FreeBSD has stable ABIs (inside one major version).
Anyway, this is not an answer, NVidia drivers had a binary part and a part compiled during installation for the specific kernel version, that’s one possible solution. Linux developers are ideologically against this, yes, and don’t want binary drivers to be first-class citizens.
This rings a little hollow to me. Most of the people I know that understand Linux can quickly summarize why they might not use it as their daily driver (eg staying on macOS for graphics/video or staying on Windows for desktop Word/Excel). If you can’t summarize that quickly, it really makes me wonder if you really understand it. I’m not trying to No True Scotsman my way around it; I really don’t understand.
Personally, I’m sticking with macOS as my primary OS until the point that Asahi solves DP alt mode and I can run two displays from it.
My 2014 Mac mini runs Mint, so I’m more than happy to dive in to Linux as my main.
The reasons I personally know are “I have to use an app for work, there is no interoperable alternative, I have no leverage to replace that entire ecosystem and it won’t run with wine” and “It’s a company-issued device where I have no rights to change anything anyway.” Combined, they make the reason that my work Laptop runs Win11, but my private PC is Linux through and through. I’d like to be able to use said app on my private PC too, but if it doesn’t, no big deal.
Word
LibreOffice Write
Right? I tried to switch my primary computer (framework laptop) to Linux earlier this year and ended up going back to windows after I had absolute nightmares with my type-c KVM. Coupled with performance issues while gaming (and the absolute hassle of having to force games to use my graphics card). Add in whatever random issues I was getting trying to remote into other windows machines on my domain (for CAD work). My day job is in software engineering/ programming, so I’m not exactly a stranger to digging through documentation and fixing computer issues, but spending time fixing my computer instead of using it got old pretty quick.
Perfectly happy with Linux in my HomeLab and on my steamdeck though!
See‽ Easy explanation. I get it, absolutely reasonable issues, and one of several areas Linux just isn’t great with. “Too many issues to explain here” doesn’t click with me.
I just switched to Linux mint as a HTPC and it works great! Wine and Bottles bridged most of the gaps in software availability.
nice!
Ive personally used proton as well for the one program that I need in windows land. It works really well.
Try winegui as well…
Where’s Microsoft’s Chief Sustainability Officer on this one? Too busy looking the other way on Copilot’s massive energy usage?
