I’ve got no problem with them, but these are obviously kids who grew up in a different age than me, and it shows, I know what could seem a joke to me could come off different to them. Especially this being In the trades and the type of jokes we make here. I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, we’re all trying to just get through the day after all
Edit: I have learned, they used to be female, transitioned to male. (So trans-masc? I’m probably messing that up) Lesbian, and non-binary, thankfully they brought it up which was very helpful as I wasn’t sure if it was appropriate to ask
I’d avoid any and all controversial topics and just keep things purely professional.
Used to be I’d engage with someone based on their physical presentation, but even that is a bit tricky anymore, and with social media blowing up even the most minor misunderstandings, it’s best to just keep it professional.
Maybe “engaging with someone’s physical presentation” was just always a bad idea and you’ve just recently realized that.
Treating people with kindness and respect mostly works out fine.
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How many trans people do you know? Has a trans person gotten mad at you for something?
Charitably, it seems like people who have never met trans people seem to think they’re balls of tinder, waiting to explode at any imagined slight. There is a lot of misinformation and propaganda out there and trans people are a punching bag.
Yes, words change a lot, and maybe someone might ask you to use a different word. That’s not an attack on you.
Yeah, you might meet someone on a bad day or there could be a misunderstanding, but, in general, treating people with kindness and respect works out pretty well.
treating people with kindness and respect
That’s what I said. Be courteous.
The thing most people get wrong is mentioning someone’s assigned gender (the one they were presumed to have at birth) instead of the one they actually are. Being reminded constantly of the one thing you absolutely don’t want to be is really disheartening, even when it’s not done on purpose.
It’s minor but I probably wouldn’t say supposed to have sounds like they are wrong
I edited it to “presumed to have at birth”.
Your comment highlights one of the difficulties I find with going between treating someone exactly as you would anyone else, while also dealing with particular sensitivities or sensibilities of that person. Even trying to describe how to be less offensive, includes wording that can sound offensive to some, justifiably so based on experience.
But all in all, I think most people will recognize good faith efforts and accept quick apologies and corrections when we make mistakes. We’re not perfect.
Completely agree and it doesn’t help that it’s an ever moving goalpost. I feel like most people understand that as long as you are acting in good faith it’s all fine.
“I’m not sure I understand, but am willing to have an open mind and listen and understand where you’re coming from. If you’ll have patience to explain to me, I’d be willing to learn with humility and humanity and do my best to be a better person”
Admit ignorance, commit to being a good person. It’s not that hard.
No one talks like this
Do you mean no one talks like this in your industry or company? You could always be a vanguard and set the tone. Also you don’t have to say exactly that, word for word. My point is to just level with them, admit you don’t really know, and then to listen and try to understand their story a bit. Even the notion in dude-speak or whatever will be heard loud and clear and you’ll make their day, and everybody will be happier for it.
There. Was that at hard?
It’s apparently easier than you not being a jackass, at least.
Edited. My intent is not to be a jackass, but to point out that SO many people use any excuse to not just bridge the gap and try to understand other people.
To be perfectly clear, though, I’ve been explaining this to people for years, and I’m absolutely sick and tired of the same old excuses and pushback. So I apologize if some of that unfairly came out here to people who are new to this and may be undeserving of that specific criticism.
What’s with the unwarranted condescension?
It’s not condescension. That’s quite literally the point. So many people just refuse to be or have never learned to be humble. This is literally a great cooperative and constructive stance to take. You don’t have to be tough, you aren’t showing off to anybody - you’re asking somebody for help understanding them. If that’s really a problem, then you need to reassess how you navigate the world with others and why. If you genuinely do this for some trans kid, they’ll love you and be more than willing to help you understand because basically nobody ever cares about them or their experiences. You’d make their year (shit. If you do this for anybody and you’ll make them happy). But don’t do it just to do it, actually embody this humility. It’ll be weird at first, but you might even make a friend.
If your first reaction is to be offended by advice, maybe you shouldn’t be in leadership.
Would you be genuinely interested in my feedback about why literally everyone agrees with me that you have a combative tone, or would you just condescendingly dismiss that as well?
Hit me.
I do not agree with an angry mob downvoting you, but I’ll notice this is probably not the context to put this in.
This looks more like a parent figuring out about their kids being trans. In the OP’s context, everyone is on an even ground.
Here, it is mostly important to use their preferred names/pronouns and consult on the terms as necessary.
No you’re making it sound like they’re going to be a problem right from the start and you’re willing to understand
Is “they” op or the trans kid?
Trans
You’re not a dick for getting someone’s pronouns wrong… You’re a dick if you intentionally and continuously misgender them on purpose.
Exactly. Sure it sucks when it happens by accident, but it’s to be expected to some extent. It’s when someone is doing it intentionally to fuck with you that it really gets under your skin. It’s disrespectful.
Well, I have had two people tell me very rudely that I’m an asshole because I got their pronoun wrong because they had it at the start of the presentation somewhere. And I also have had dozens more who corrected me politely a couple of times and then I’d just remember the right pronouns.
Assholes are assholes magrinalized or not.
I still mess up my sister’s spouse. They’re NB, but kept their name, hobbies, etc. To me, they’re the exact same awesome person they’ve always been, so I still screw up and call them by male pronouns.
I 100% support them, but I screw up and it feels bad.
Pick the one that’s been working there longest and ask them these questions. Check in they feel ok with how the workplace is trucking
Well, one thing I know is: make sure you don’t out them. If a kid has transphobic parents, you really don’t want to accidentally inform them their kid is trans.
I mean I just stay out of peoples personal lives as a principal
Great start. It also goes for work. Even if they’re open about it, just don’t allow comment on it at all at work. People quite often say “so there’s a lad working on X team and he’s trans but you’d never know” or needlessly say “oh yeah Katie, she’s trans”. Shut that down RUTHLESSLY around you unless the trans person says not to
I like this idea and will do my best to put it to work. Shut that shit down. Thank you.
Np thanks for looking out for trans people!
I dont understand people’s need to share shit like that.
It’s up there with (though obviously not as private and sensitive as) when people tell you a story about someone they interacted with and just have to make sure you know the skin colour of the person when it holds zero relevance to the story.
I know it’s ingrained into what people say. Maybe it’s the unusual things people feel they need to comment on? Idk though
Im trans with over 10 years of experience in the industry
–
There’s really not a lot to it. We just want a basic level of respect and empathy. Respect their chosen names and pronouns, and don’t ask them random questions about being trans unless they’re open to it. Trust them when/if they talk about their experiences, they know more about themselves than you do. Reassure them that their job is a safe space.
Happy to answer any questions.
Edit: if you slip up on name/pronouns, simply apologize, correct yourself, and move on. We know people aren’t always trying to be malicious. Hell, my dad still slips up on my pronouns.
Im trans with over 10 years of experience in the industry
The… trans industry? How much does it pay?
Depends on who you ask
And in what currency?
Unknown lip filler shots in the parking lot of a Church’s Chicken
Is one tradition IDK how today’s kids do it
Blahaj and programming socks (the yearly bonus is a Thinkpad)
You’re convincing me to switch careers/gender
I almost forget the free fem&ms (breast mints) :3
Lol gonna get me a job forcefemming people
:3
Please send pricelist.
HEEHAW!
Call me whatever you want at this point, but if it comes down to “A [type of person] has shown up at my job, what topics should I avoid?” it’s time to start updating the resume.
Someone that lacks empathy?
Things I am likely to say to my team at work:
“I emailed you an STL. Please print two of them, and be ready to print 18 more if the customer approves.”
“Put on your safety glasses.”
“The lathe’s coolant pump is not working, I think it may be the contactor. Take a look at it when you first clock in tomorrow and let me know what parts we need if any; I’m going to need it up and running by Thursday.”
“Safety glasses go on the front of your head, not the top.”
“SomeCo has our steel order ready, take the company truck and pick it up. Make sure to get a copy of the P.O.”
“Put. On. Your safety glasses.”
“How’s it coming on those base plates? Can we get started on the brackets yet or are we still waiting?”
“If you get vitreous humor on my drill press, you’re the one that’s gonna clean it up.”
If you can’t handle being spoken to in this manner, you are not going to last long on my team.
Those are not the only words you utter at work. Don’t be ridiculous.
You are completely and entirely missing the point of this post.
When new people from different cultures or backgrounds assimilate into a new work place, being culturally sensitive is expected and the standard.
Yeah I’m more or less with the Republicans on this one. Either you’re suffering from gender dysphoria, and you should seek treatment from qualified mental health personnel, or you went on Tumblr as a tweenager and instead of being a greaser or punk or goth you’re “trans.” Either way, this is not your employer or coworker’s problem.
As expected, a complete lack of empathy
You’re right. If that dude works with you, I’d also suggest them to brush up their resume.
Empathy is a really stupid idea when all you’ll ever be is what people can extract from you.
Hey there, who hurt you so bad you gave up empathy all together?
Edit: added a missing ‘up’ in that sentence.
It must strain a lot of brain cells parroting ol musky.
Gender dysphoria is a mental problem, in the sense that it causes mental distress to be in the wrong body. The treatment is not therapy, it’s surgery to correct the body to fit the mind. A therapist can help identify the cause of the distress, but if the cause is the body then that therapist will recommend surgery.
I recall seeing research suggesting that trans people’s brainwaves more closely match that of their “desired” gender than that of their sex. It reinforces the idea that being transgender isn’t a mental issue, it’s a physical issue that causes mental distress.
A trans man isn’t a woman who merely thinks she’s a man, it’s actually a man inside that skull. Only the body underneath it is wrong. It’s as if tomorrow you woke up in the body of the opposite gender. That will (after the novelty wears off) start distressing you. Trans people didn’t wake up like that, they were born with that feeling.
Reactions like this do nothing to further anything. Pointing at a post where someone acknowledges their lack of understanding and ignorance, a post where someone is trying to be more open and accepting, and telling them that they are the problem and should give up is as close minded and bigoted as the person you’re making OP out to be
Treat them like any other person. Their gender/identity should have absolutely zero impact on the ability to do their job. So you don’t even need to ask this question. If you feel like you’re walking on eggshells and scared of bringing up an offensive topic, then that’s an issue with you, not with them. There’s nothing that you say that should be offending them since it’s absolutely irrelevant to work.
Regardless of who your coworkers are, topics like gender identity or politics should NEVER be discussed in the workplace. If you simply avoid engaging in those types of topics then you will be safe. Talking about those things at work is an absolute horrendous idea, regardless of who the coworkers are. Those convos don’t belong in the workplace.
I think some politics is healthy to talk about in certain work situations. Definitely not the red vs blue tribal nonsense, but discussing and understanding material conditions
The only politics that should be discussed at work are policies that directly impact the business. For example, my company has many conversations and meetings around impacts from Trump’s tariffs. No one gives an opinion on what their politics are. Not a single one. We discuss the impact on the business and how we can mitigate them. It ends there.
I think many workplaces function better when workers are able to develop camaraderie by talking and joking about things that aren’t strictly related to work
There are plenty of other things to joke around and talk about, aside from politics.
When I say politics I include things like struggles with inflation and laws that harm you and global warming and working conditions and much more. I think that it’s good to engage thoughtfully with the people we surround ourselves with
When someone starts complaining about what bathroom everyone is using, you can’t just ignore it and hope it goes away. It’s your job as their superior to address these issues.
Similarly,
Their gender/identity should have absolutely zero impact on the ability to do their job.
Making this stance clear requires talking about gender identity and politics.
I think you’re talking about a completely different situation. All I’m saying is that you shouldn’t talk politics at work. You’re talking about someone creating a disturbance and making people uncomfortable. Obviously the company would want to take care of that. That’s a completely different situation.
I don’t understand your second point about having a conversation about gender identity. What do you mean? I don’t see how that applies to my reply.
I can’t speak for trans people, but i would expect that the best course of action is to be yourself and dont mock anyone. You can rib and have a laugh, but dont open with a whole script of trans jokes. Get to k ow them, like you would with anyone and learn the boundaries naturally. If you think of them as different, you will be on edge the whole time and are more likely to mess up.
If you make any mistakes, just be sure to apologise, and i am sure any of them would understand. Ultimately, as far as i understand it, trans people just want to be accepted and allowed to be them selves and be a part of society. The only way that happens is if we dont treat them differently, whether thans positively or negatively.
I’m trans, and have also worked with trans kids. Sometimes outed myself when it was safe - showing young trans men that yes, you can be a man.
It really comes down to “what name and pronouns would you me to call you by?”
If you want to go above and beyond: “would you like me to correct/step in for you if someone calls you by the wrong names/pronouns?” I feel this is a place where adult advocates can have good impact.
“Does your family know/should I use your legal name when talking to your family?”
See the child as a person who deserves dignity and respect, who is in a vulnerable position and does need unconditional support. Which is true for all children. You don’t have to put up a progress flag or wear a rainbow pin - these can certainly be very good things to do - but at the end of the day, just honor the child.
If you struggle with pronouns, apologize casually when the pronouns come up.
As a fellow old, the kids don’t seem to necessarily get it that my brain is wired pretty hard not to change pronouns, but they do seem to appreciate the effort and the discussion that it’s a challenge rather than just fucking it up with no explanation.
Otherwise, be mindful that they take a lot of shit for parts of themselves that are background attributes for the rest of us. They can get pretty tired of it. A friendly person who regards them as just people may be the best thing they can get from anyone.
I’m trans. To me the most important thing about jokes in the workplace is when a cis person says something that I can twist into being a deadpan trans joke (of varying riskiness depending on the group). Either the cis person will softlock while trying to determine the ethics of laughing or they’ll go for it and potentially apologize. It’s always a win in my book though
Trans people are weird, but so is everyone else.
Ehhhhhh, I get what you’re trying to say, but also, yikes?
I mean I was trying to be cute there, but I genuinely think that this it the way to proper respect and non-bigotry in the workplace. You have lots of oddball people in every workplace of more than 3 people, and you’re supposed to function with all of them. Trans is just one more. And of course it’s all subjective, so the people you might think are perfectly normal are completely bizarre to some other people and vice versa. And you have to navigate around that too.
This is not a comprehensive list, but you should probably avoid talking about your sex life.
oh hi mark
But how can I impress people with my competitive qualities? I had fourteen sex last night, and before that I did four sets of three sex at a time.
I’m even the speedruns any% TAS WR holder at 3.19 seconds.
Do my colleagues not need to know about this???
You can mention it by asking about office etiquette on Lemmy.
Ah nice one cheers friend!
good advice for any workplace
But I’m a hooker
In that case, you’re just talking shop
then let your clients fill in the blanks, even if that’s letting them believe this is your first time. unless you think you can charoe extra for that. then do
Yes.
