Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland have announced they will leave the Ottawa Convention of 1997, which prohibits anti-personnel landmines. Later in June, all five states are expected to give the United Nations formal notice of their withdrawal, allowing them to manufacture, stockpile and deploy such munitions from the end of the year. Together, they guard 2,150 miles of Nato’s frontier with Russia and its client state of Belarus.

Military planners are already working out which expanses of European forest and lake land would be planted with these deadly devices, laden with high explosives and shrapnel, if Vladimir Putin were to mass his forces against the alliance.

  • @[email protected]
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    1416 days ago

    “client state of Belarus” … In the last 4 yrs, I actually see a bit more of independence of Belarus from Moscow than Germany, Lithuania or Finland does from Washington DC… Belorussian at least takes weeks or months to comply with Moscow’s demands… it is always overnight for Europeans!

    Militarily speaking, I don’t see this being much of a deterrent either. In such a vast terrain, it would not be hard for Russia to get hold of one and reverse engineer it to disable it (presumably they will be remote controlled and disabled). But even with that, just a large unmanned machine can go in front triggering the mines and breach the line overnight. Again, due to the vast amount of land border and civilian population, it will be a very thin line. Of course, that takes the assumption that Russia had any interest of invading any land beyond Ukraine, that I would rate it as zero (unless invaded first or an total embargo on Kaliningrad!). After NATO’s progress fiasco showed in Ukraine, I think from now, the industry and certain politicians just view NATO as a cash cow for the remaining of its existence and less and less expenses share of the pie will be for innovation and readiness.

    • @[email protected]
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      16 days ago

      And Belarus took decades to finally stop sitting on the fence and come for help to Russia in the first place. And this of course happened after months of coup attempts in 2020. Poland and Lithuania still do everything they can to harm Belarus short of military attack.

  • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost
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    1717 days ago

    When someone shambles to a hospital missing a limb, they can blame it on Russia who laid those landmines, I guess.

  • @[email protected]
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    17 days ago

    A nightmare for the grandchildren who will lose limbs and lives over this primitive, abhorrent practice.

    • @[email protected]
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      916 days ago

      It’s that or being forced to meat-wave assault by the Russian empirialistic war-machine. Truly a shitty situation all-around

      • Cowbee [he/they]
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        16 days ago

        The “Russian Human Wave” narrative is based on Nazi propaganda from World War II, trying to draw a racist connection between the asiatic Russians and the Mongols, the idea of the “Mongol Horde.” Neither the Red Army during World War II nor the modern Russian Federation use human wave tactics, the closest was the Tsarist army pre-Socialism.

        Further, Russia is not trying to endlessly expand, they are trying to fully de-millitarize Ukraine as Ukraine was cozying up to NATO, and NATO promised long ago that it wouldn’t expand eastward yet it has consistently done so over the last few decades, forming millitant encirclement of Russia by hostile countries that want Russia to open up its capital markets for foreign plundering. Further, the nationalist government of Ukraine was shelling ethnic Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk, both of which declared independence from Ukraine before Russia invaded.

        Regardless of the morality of Russia going to war with Ukraine, there is no evidence that the RF is seeking to expand westward. This is just Red Scare 2.0 nonsense.

        • @[email protected]
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          1716 days ago

          You can’t suggest that the Russian military is capable of using modern troop mobilization strategies. Or that mass media to the contrary might be a part of a racialized propaganda campaign to dehumanize conscripts in the opposition. Or that the Russians (who are curiously still closely aligned with the Saudis, the Israelis, the Indians, and a patchwork of far-right factions across Europe and Africa) aren’t a distinct uniquely horrible imperialist faction that good liberal Europeans need to use all military options to obliterate at any cost.

          Only a Russian bot or a paid shill or a Tankie idiot would make such a claim. Why, when I read a post like this, I question whether it could even be produced by a human at all. It must be the viewpoint from the deepest bowls of the Nine Hells.

          there is no evidence that the RF is seeking to expand westward

          It’s weird to see NATO expand eastward for forty years, slowly gobbling up ex-Soviet states and replacing them with right-wing oligarchies and reactionary-lead business cartels. And then hearing how Russia is the expansionary power.

          Weirder still to see the US bomb its way into Iraq, Afghanistan, and the length of North Africa, only to be told that armed opposition groups and disaffected insurgents are the product of Russian disinformation and imperialism.

          If the US were to re-invade Vietnam, I genuinely do not know if folks on this sub would understand that the Vietcong and the Northern Vietnamese military were fighting for their independence and not some cat’s-paw of Evil Internationalist Socialism seeking to rapaciously colonize the native peoples of the French Catholic South.

          • Cowbee [he/they]
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            916 days ago

            Russians moving in a single-file line doesn’t mean “human wave tactics” are at play. Further, maintaining a “gore folder” is highly disgusting behavior, holy shit.

            • @[email protected]
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              216 days ago

              Why would they move in such mass on active battlefield tho? How would you call such tactics? How do you imagine human wave tactics? Is it in the style where Russians are just driven over by an APC?

              • Cowbee [he/they]
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                616 days ago

                Troop movements. “Human wave” tactics fell oit of fashion under the Tsar, because they are utterly ineffective, yet the slavic Russians continually get slandered as such due to the persistance of Nazi propaganda against the Red Army among western countries, who dug that back up during the cold war uncritically against the Soviets, until it’s now associated with Russians like it’s a genetic factor.

                • @[email protected]
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                  416 days ago

                  Small context addition for the tsarist human waves, all other armies used it too in that times, just read what massacres Douglas Haig or earlier Frederic the Great ordered.

            • Cowbee [he/they]
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              616 days ago

              Sure, Ukraine uses drones, as does Russia, and Russia indeed has troops. This is not the same as “human waves,” the post-war Nazi cope for why the Nazis lost Stalingrad despite the Red Army using advanced (at the time) tactics to draw comparison to the “mongol hordes” due to the asiatic Russian ethnicity. This “human waves” myth perpetuates to this day because western powers repeated it enough times to pretend it’s true, and somehow persists to this day despite the laws of the battlefield changing radically since the 1800s when such tactics did exist in some degree.

    • @[email protected]
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      16 days ago

      The article states that current generation landmines can be deactivated remotely and then removed easily, compared to old landmines that you could die trying to remove.

      Edit: I have no clue why I’m being downvoted. I’m stating what the article states.

      • @[email protected]
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        516 days ago

        many of these mines will end up being washed by some flood, unfortunately. and end up where they shouldn’t get.

    • Lorindól
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      816 days ago

      The headline of the article is misleading. No one is laying “pre-emptive” minefields at their borders for civilians to waltz in, withdrawal from the Ottawa agreement means that anti-personnel landmines are an option if Russia starts massing troops on their side of the border.

      I’ve trained with landmines during my military service and they are truly horrible things. I hope we never have to use them again.

  • wuphysics87
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    716 days ago

    A pragmatic low cost solution in light of the usa threat of forcing the european members of nato to “pay their fair share”. But what prevents russia from detonating them with drones? This isn’t ds9. They (presumably) aren’t self replicating.

      • Cowbee [he/they]
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        The “Russian Human Wave” narrative is based on Nazi propaganda from World War II, trying to draw a racist connection between the asiatic Russians and the Mongols, the idea of the “Mongol Horde.” Neither the Red Army during World War II nor the modern Russian Federation use human wave tactics, the closest was the Tsarist army pre-Socialism. This is ridiculous.

        As for the DPRK, seems their involvement was limited to Kursk, and munitions supplies.

        • @[email protected]
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          916 days ago

          “Mongol Horde.”

          Funniest part is even the original narration was complete bullshit. Mongols regularily won battles against more numerous armies due to superior logistics, strategy, tactics and equipment.

          • Cowbee [he/they]
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            It was relevent then, and is relevant now because opposition to Russia is filled with Russophobia. The Russian Federation doesn’t use “Human Wave” tactics, and haven’t used them. There’s no evidence of it, only allegations, and those allegations draw from their historical accusations against the Red Army, equally false.

            Denouncing anti-slavic racism isn’t “Russian apologia.” I oppose NATO expansionism and I agree with the rights of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics to secede from Ukraine, which they have done due to the coup in 2014. I also support a swift conclusion to the war. If you oppose those, I doubt we will see eye to eye.

            It is telling that you refuse to “counter my nonsense,” that speaks more to a lack of ability to do so.

    • @[email protected]
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      17 days ago

      This is absurd nonsense even from the military point of view, it’s Stupid Man’s Maginot Line and in case of real attack will be broken effortlessly. It’s pure political posturing, only people that suffer from it will be random civilians.

      • @[email protected]
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        316 days ago

        Better to wait until hostilities start and seed the enemy territory on the other side of your border with mines to cut off their initial force from getting backup than to endanger your own side with explosives that may fail to deactivate when decommissioned.

        Also if they can be deactivated remotely, what stops your enemy from figuring out the kill code.

      • @[email protected]
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        it’s Stupid Man’s Maginot Line and in case of real attack will be broken effortlessly

        The Maginot Line was not broken, it was avoided. The nazis were essentially forced to take a different route to reach France, through Belgium. The issue was that it gave the defenders a false sense of security and the alternate route was not well protected (they thought the rough terrain would be a deterrent). It was an error in strategy, but the line itself held.

        • @[email protected]
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          16 days ago

          That wasn’t only mines, mines was just a first line and on way smaller lenght of the front.

          • @[email protected]
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            16 days ago

            Do we know if the idea is to really have only mines?

            The article gives as example some razor wire reinforced fence area through the forest that’s likely gonna be targeted (the picture does not show what’s on the floor, but you can see the area has surveillance cameras too). I wouldn’t be surprised if the idea is to have some multi-layered protection, Surovikin-like, but of course the mines is what will break the news, since they could affect civilians the most.

            • @[email protected]
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              516 days ago

              I would say even the mines would be too expensive (especially at the time entire NATO have problem with ammo production), everything is probably just one of the warmongering masturbation ideas that Baltics produce in higher amount than any weapon. Even if realised it would be at most something like Poland did at Belarussian border, so it would be basically a fence to stop and kill unarmed migrants and it would also tie entire armies of those countries to watch it.

        • @[email protected]
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          1016 days ago

          Russia who still fights with meat wave attacks

          Here we go again with the literal Nazi propaganda of the “human meat wave Asiatic hordes”.

  • @[email protected]
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    316 days ago

    So I guess the circle will go round and round again, presumably until we learn how to communicate with people different than us.