It’s much preferred over pitch black darkness at 3:30pm in the winter…
I think you’re forgetting that night time is cool and day time is for losers.
It’s a lot less cool when you’re robbed the option of day time entirely, because you have to spend daylight hours at work…you wake up, its dark…you leave work, its dark. And on top, it’s rainy and cold and windy.
Mostly losing my will to live for months every year is not very cool.
depends where you live
People who bark about diurnal superiority are losers.
How far north do you live to get darkness at 3.30 pm?
Its also not a choice between ops pictures and this because i am convinced they are criticising daylight saving In summer, which does not affect winter.
Yes, it is mocking DST.
Where I live the sun comes up at 6 am and sets at 9 pm. That makes the noon at 1:30 pm. If we didn’t have DST it would be up at 5 and down at 8 pm with noon at 12:30, which would be preferable.
DST fucks with my sleep schedule, I hate it so much.
Why on earth would that be preferable? Unless you get up at 5am the morning sunlight is wasted, and you have less sun to enjoy in the evenings
First of all, I don’t wake up with the sun. Having it rise earlier is better for me to wake up naturally, and the normal time would actually help me get up early enough to enjoy the cooler morning before work.
Second, I am just as happy when the sun goes down. In fact, if it didn’t go down so fucking late I would have an extra hour of less blazing hot temps as the sun goes down to relax outside before bed.
I would rather have more summer sun in the cool morning before work than the blazing hot sun in the evenings after work. I would also like to get to sleep at a reasonable hour, but DST makes that harder.
First of all, I don’t wake up with the sun. Having it rise earlier is better for me to wake up naturally, and the normal time would actually help me get up early enough to enjoy the cooler morning before work.
I’m guessing you meant you do wake up with the sun. It doesn’t matter what time the sun comes up then, just wake up with it and enjoy the cool morning then.
Second, I am just as happy when the sun goes down. In fact, if it didn’t go down so fucking late I would have an extra hour of less blazing hot temps as the sun goes down to relax outside before bed.
This literally makes no sense. The temperature will be just as hot at whatever time of day it is no matter whether it’s Standard time or Daylight Saving time.
I would also like to get to sleep at a reasonable hour, but DST makes that harder.
Exactly. Standard time makes this harder. I would like to get sleep at 5 am, a reasonable hour. You do realize the majority of the planet doesn’t go to sleep until after 11pm right? https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-bedtime-by-country
You’d literally be forcing the majority of the population to get even less sleep, since the sun would be interrupting their sleep more. If you go to sleep before 11pm you are in the absolute extreme minority.
First of all, I meant what I wrote. Outside of being forced to wake up early for business hours, I wake up naturally an hour or two after the sun comes up. Right now I get up about when the sun comes up, but early and late in DST the sun doesn’t even come up until after I have left for work. So no sun early in the morning before work except right now.
Second, if the sun goes down at 8 pm instead of 9 pm because of DST, it is cooler at 8 pm. If I didn’t have to follow DST for work then it wouldn’t matter because I could just stay up later and wake up later, but that isn’t what we are talking about.
The rest of the world stays up in the summer because of DST. Also, I am expressing my opinion, not the opinion of the world’s average. Also, I go to sleep around midnight because the sun is up so fucking late during DST, and then have to drag my ass out of bed in the morning because the sun doesn’t come up at the natural time.
If they are sleeping based on the sun, they would probably go to bed earlier and get up earlier, right? It would be easier with the sun going down earlier in the evening!
Those averages have nothing to do with summer. In fact many of those locations don’t obey daylight saving time at all, so no, your point is just incorrect. I understand you are stating your opinion, but your opinion would affect the vast majority of the planet in a negative way. Having people drive to work in the dark is a much better outcome for the majority of the planet than having it get dark when the majority of the planet is doing activities unrelated to work.
Most people don’t sleep based on the sun, they sleep based on their work schedule. That’s why DST is superior, because work schedules will just move earlier to make sure that they’re capturing when people are first waking up, you’ll never get rid of that. What you can do is make it so that it’s light when people are performing after school activities, club sports, events, hanging out with friends, etc.
You can always use blackout curtains, so any argument about sleep is never going to be relevant to this conversation. What is relevant is work and play.
DST sucks my sweaty balls!
Objectively,
Because we would be avoiding the 2 jet lag times a year which have been proven to cause deadly (traffic) accidents.
Because the other alternative of always dst means sun only gets up at 10am in winter which can negatively impact mental health (especially for children and teenagers)
Subjectively,
Because some people actually enjoy summer nights.
Because getting up on time is easier with more sunlight. And waking gradually and naturally at 5:30 beats waking forcefully by alarm at 6:30
DST is in use 3/4 of the year. It is “normal” time, where everyone recognizes that 4am is entirely too fucking early for a sunrise, so we push that back to 5AM.
“Standard” time is the abnormal abomination that we currently switch to for about 3 months in winter.
Seasonal depression in kids and teens is primarily due to the lack of outdoor activities in winter, which is caused by an abnormally early sunset driving them indoors immediately after school.
Locking the clocks on normal, “summer” time solves the problems with the time change. The “kids walking to school in the dark” problem is mitigated by the fact that they already spend the darkest three weeks of the year on winter vacation; we can extend that one more week by stealing three days from each end of the summer vacation. The remaining two or three weeks of early morning darkness do not justify stealing months of evening daylight from the rest of us.
How does keeping kids inside the whole time the sun is up improve their mental health over giving them an extra hour of sun after school that they can actually enjoy?
I am no psychologist but it’s about how their day night cycle develops which is very different from adults.
Daylight is one of the systems it uses to self regulate and start feeling awake.
School actually starts to soon in many places, that already a major part of it. Research (not at hand) actually show grades go up if school starts later. We basically force kids to be tired to fit our schedule and it gets worse for teens.
With delayd sunlight. They wont really be properly awake for almost half their “productive” day”.
We also know that lack of sleep is a pillar of mental health conditions, now include all the dormant mental health conditions kids already carry and with growing up in this timeline.
Circadian rhythms aren’t based solely on the sun. They are also based on social and physical activity. Things they don’t get when sitting indoors for the entirety of their daylight hours.
Lack of sleep is primarily because they are not physically tired come bed time. They aren’t physically tired becauae they haven’t engaged in any physical activity all day. They’ve been obligated to sit indoors during daylight hours, and they don’t have daylight for outdoor evening activities.
Instead, they get to sit indoors, under artificial lighting and watching bright screens, both of which screw up their sleep schedules.
That’s around the same latitude as Kiel in Northern Germany. Go up to Stockholm and it sets around 2:45 pm at the earliest.
I live just about in the middle of Norway. It’s nearly always dark in the winter and nearly always light in summer.
DST also makes no real difference here, if its sunrise at 4:30am and sundown at 11:30pm or sunrise at 3:30am and sundown at 10:30pm doesn’t matter whatsoever.
22:40 here
Iceland?
Denmark
As someone who’s house is entirely powered by solar, I love the long days! I also do a lot of outside work so the extra hours of daylight really help me there too
During winter it was so overcast and cloudy that I had to run a generator almost the entirety of the season
Full solar power is the dream! That’s awesome.
It can be pretty great, but you really do need to treat it differently than you would on the grid!
For example: at night, making sure you don’t leave lights on, not running heavy loads like the microwave for very long, etc.
The good news is that as the old expensive equipment gets phased out, it gets easier and cheaper to DIY your off grid (or emergency backup) system!
If it weren’t for having to run the heat pump, I’d have 10X what I need right now. But 3 or 4 hours of usable sunlight in the winter makes it hard to keep up.
For real, I have wood stoves (and propane heaters a supplemental) for winter heat so luckily a little less load on my system! This past winter was so cold here I had to get a subzero sleeping bag and put a living heater (my dog) inside of it because even the wood stoves couldn’t keep up
I have mini splits but because of the sun situation I couldn’t run them on heat without burning through my power/spending hundreds of dollars on gas for the generator!
I have woodstoves as well, but I’ll run the furnace fan to distribute the heat, so there’s a bit of use, and it’ll kick propane in if the fire burns down, or the heat pump if it’s above -15 outside and I have capacity. I tend to be around 10KW of usage but 23KW of panels struggles some days. After about 5 days of poor sun I’ll be out of reserve, and I fire up the genny for 5 hours to top them back up.
I’ve considered building a woodgas source for the genny, that would take me pretty much completely off the teat. I’d love to get a groundsource heat pump but those are mucho dinero.
I’ve also considered melting urea for a cooling source, since we farm and need N for the sprayer. It’s amazing how much heat the endothermic reaction takes, and using a sprayer for topdressing is much more precise than spreading dry fert.
That’s awesome, I’d love to get a system like that going for my generator. Good luck with that, if you end up doing it!
What’s the insulation situation in your house? I didn’t build mine and the previous owner who did used Styrofoam and cinder blocks so it’s a losing battle keeping it climate controlled 95% of the time (alongside no central ducts at all minus the chimney)
It being summer here, I’ve stripped the inside walls and insulation. It was built in the 60s and had terrible insulation. I did have to wear a respirator because that era of gyproc used asbestos and mine tested positive. But now I’m furring out the walls on the inside with 2X material to get an R20-24, and I’ll probably add a reflective layer for added heat retention/reflection. I also have to re-do the siding, so I might add a 2" closed-cell layer under that for another R8. I’d like to have it competely passive, with a greenhouse on one side to gather winter heat and circulate. Winter here is pretty much 8 months so I have an uphill battle there.
Astrophotographers be like:
Ah yes, staying up until 3am for 3 hours of good data
I love the long days lol
But more evening sun means better light for evening events. I don’t know of too many early morning events other than work/commute and fuck the boss’ extra 5% productivity from the average person, I’d rather drive in the dark.
More evening sun means my night needs to start later, and the world doesn’t get pretty til late
Your logic doesn’t make sense. In other threads you’re arguing that you can’t go out when it’s hot, so stay inside instead. That’s how you get ready for bed anyway, by staying inside. How does the sunsun staying up later change your night routine at all?
Guess what it does do? Make afternoon outdoor activities much safer. Biking, rock climbing, running, literally any outdoor activity is much safer in daylight.
Youre assuming
- I never want to go outside. That it would be healthy to do that.
I want to avoid the sun. Dinner outside at my favorite restaurant, fucking on a famous homophobe’s grave, third outdoor activity normal people do.
2A. Afternoon activities
So do them in rhe afternoon during the two hours it’s light out!
2B. Safer!
Heat and heat stroke are hazards too.
- Staying inside is good for sleeping anyway
Not everyone lives like you. Im gonna use the only time it feels nice to go outside to go outside, instead of rotting in bed forever.
Your logic gets more and more obtuse. You want to go outside, but you want to avoid the sun, you want to do activities outside, but only in a two hour timespan (completely ignoring commuting and that many activities take longer than that). You talk about heat stroke like it’s happening to every single person who goes outside.
Not everyone lives like you. Im gonna use the only time it feels nice to go outside to go outside, instead of rotting in bed forever.
This comment makes even less sense. You want to be outside, but you don’t want sun, but you want to sleep when it’s 8 pm, but that’s the coolest time of the day if it’s not dst. Like seriously, none of your argument makes sense. And fyi, I spend the majority of my day outside. Even working from home, I’ll work in a hammock outside. But I’m also not the average person. The average person commutes to a location to work and then has to come back home, get ready for their activities and then go from there. All of your suggestions are completely at odds with that.
And fyi, shade exists. This is honestly one of the most troll conversations I’ve ever participated in, acting like the sun burns you the second you step outside and you want to be outside without the sun. If you want to be outside without the sun then go out when it’s dark. You can wake up at your normal 5am time and get a great amount of dark cool weather. And the rest of us can live normally.
Sorry i can’t telk if you’re a morning ‘person’ or a troll.
Tbh id settle for a split difference, just get rid of the time shift. It’s more of an issue in the winter.
Basing everything on our system of description rather than using a rich descriptive system to define things is the problem of so much of our shit.
I don’t care about the sun being up at 9 or 10 still.
I hate the god damn heat! Get this climate change under control! 😬
That’s a hard ask of the stupids of the world.
More like 1:30 PM, during midwinter. 😭 The long dark near the Arctic circle…
I can’t wait to finally have winter again. Thanks, this brought a tear to my eye.
But also the other 23 hours.
And it’s besutiful.
For ghouls, maybe.
Bruh that’s so rude, they’re just programmers, no need to call them names
I love that, thank you very much.
3*
Do you know how depressing it is to only experience the sun while at work and not outside of it in the winter?
Yes. It creates a weird mind-fuck where i actually like a thing about my job, and the corporation has spared me a great evil.
Especially those times of year where you’re in the office before the sun rises, and leave after it sets. Oh, and you work in a windowless room.
Yes, I do know. Funny thing because I normally don’t care about going out and such. But going to work before sunrise and going home after sunset is depressing.
I think that most winter lovers/summer haters live fairly south (like, not in areas north enough for taiga or tundra) and have never experienced a real winter. Come back to me when you have spent 5 months with only a few hours of sunlight, streets slippery as hell, barely any vegetation or animals, and being cold as hell.
Nah, I know Finnish people who like winter and their winters are hard core.
No we don’t. Why do you think we drink more coffee than any other country and have shitton of both seasonal and general depression?
I know you generally hate it but I have met individuals who (claim to) like it
Have you never heard of Antarctica?
I lived in Fairbanks, AK for almost three years. I’ve also lived in Bethel for a little over a year and spent about 6 months in Barrow. I grew up in Anchorage. If I could afford to have seasonal houses, my summer home would be in Barrow and my winter home would be in Fairbanks.
Fuck anywhere that gets above 65F at any point during the year. It’s currently 62F in Anchorage and while it’s bearable, it’s bordering on becoming miserable.
Fuck Summer and the Sun it rode in on.
That sounds so amazing. Air temperature outside my car driving back from the store was 114F a few minutes ago. You can’t go outside, you can’t get fresh air into your house, and the a/c runs full blast 24/7 just to hit 72F inside, until the power grid fails, again, because it’s more profitable to not properly maintain the equipment. I need to get out of here. Texas sucks.
Omg we are such opposites. I grew up in FL and 60sF (15C) is winter for us. Like people will straight up wear jackets in the 60s. I love weather in the 80sF (26C), 90sF (32C) is bearable, but 100sF (37C) is horrible and stay inside as much as possible.
I think it’s a bit hard to live further south than Punta Arenas but I loved winter there despite it being far from warm.
As someone who works all day, commutes, and then has to sleep, I don’t understand this viewpoint.
What am I going to do with extra daylight after work? I’m still just going home and then to bed. It’s not like I’m taking an excursion to the lake at 8pm when I’ve got to be up at 5am to get ready for work.
I have no kids, work 40 h/Week and only have a 6 min bike-commute left (used to be 55 min by train from a bigger city).
So in the summer I get up at 5:50, leave for work at 6:50, start work at 7 till 16:30 and am back home at 16:40 (Fridays are shorter). I go to bed at around 23:00. In the winter i sometimes shift the whole thing back by 1 hour.So on a normal weekday I have ~6,5 hours left to cook, clean, meet friends, do sports. So yes, i am absolutely going to the lake at 8pm.
In the winter it’s still dark 4 days a week, when I get home. So no visit to the lake, no long bike-tours etc… All activities that require sunlight have to take place on saturday/sunday. I could really use more sunlight in the winter.
This is great.
I fucking hate the summer.
X-Files in Alaska:
Fox: “Why is the school closed on a weekday?”
Mulder: “It’s 10PM Fox.”
Uh, I’ve never actually seen the show, but I’m pretty sure Fox Mulder is the guy and something Scully is the lady.
Dana Scully.
Fun fact; she wasn’t allowed to play an FBI agent in anything else for a long time as to not dilute the Scully character
I had ONE job. :(
He’s talking to himself? Must be the lack of sleep.
I actually like that the sun doesn’t set until like ten in the evening where I live. It also starts rising at 3 in the morning. I love it. I prefer this to depression season the other half of the year xS
Found the Dane :)
I’ve been to Denmark and I agree, it’s great to have sun until late in the evening. It feels like you have more life after a work day.
then there is the winter when you casually just realize that you haven’t seen the sun in weeks, maybe event months because you leave for work before the sun rises and go home after it sets and in the weekends you are inside recovering from the workweek.
But still i like to say that it takes the whole winter to yearn for the summer but it only takes one day of summer to want it to be winter again.
That, and more energy. I swear something got fucked up at the factory when they made me. I’m a terrible scandinavian. I am prone to pretty intense winter depressions and I’m not a fan of the cold either. I have been so far down the dumps during the winter seasons that I have blacked out entire months and have no memory of what I did and my spouse is like “yeah, you basically spent two months sitting in the same corner of the home when you weren’t working, just looking gone, dude.” And when I have winters where I feel like I did pretty good and didn’t get depressed my man still goes “yeah, nah. You were depressed af. Just not vacant this time”.
On the flipside I have been giddy like a kid walking for hours in flip-flops in Mediterranean mountains, getting slow cooked by the summer sun. I remember last time I was visiting Greece with my parents and we walked all morning until noon to get to a nice little beach across the mountains and a couple of locals saw us coming and were fucking horrified that we had come all that way on foot, lol.
Sorry, but I prefer this to winter days where I don’t see the sun at all because it’s only up while I’m at work.
They’re equally awful but in their own ways.
No. No i think roasting when you open your front door is worse.
I don’t mind high temperatures on their own, but I’ll die if they’re combined with high humidity.
Sorry, but over 105f you literally die. At 115 it feels like an oven outside.
105 femtowhat? I have no idea what those numbers mean.
Thats fair. ~4(3?)c. The temp your brain cooks at.
does depend on where you live tho. up north the summers aren’t so bad
Okay, yes, im sure in the arctic circle i would love the temperate evenings.
Seattle has an awesome summer and it’s not even that far north. San Francisco’s is downright chilly!
But sometimes when there’s snow and you have the moon shining it’s just unbelievably pretty. But yeah, I’ll take more sun over less anytime.
I’m enjoying seeing my solar panels still producing electricity for the house at 8:55pm at night.
