led crowds in chants of “free, free Palestine” and “death, death to the IDF” [The BBC said:] “The antisemitic sentiments expressed by Bob Vylan were utterly unacceptable … " [Starmer said:] “appalling hate speech.”
“Free Palestine” is not antisemitic. Criticism of a nation state’s armed forces is not antisemitic. Especially when those armed forces are objectively committing genocide.
I think the issue is the other chant, now I’m not saying that is anti-Semitic at all as that’s insane.
For what it’s worth fuck the IDF, terrorist assholes.
Pfft…
Only the rational and reasonable buy into what you’re putting forth here…
Which completely and entirely excludes any/all MAGAts and other assorted fascist/authoritarian types that appear to be consuming gov’ts globally.
🤡 🖕 💩 💩
Also excludes pretty much every establishment Democrat
Of course, it is both sides, the Republicans and the Democrats, who are causing a problem in the UK government.
Also excludes quite a lot of Liberals - a lot of people who’ve been brainwashed over the last 3 decades with the fake “leftwing” idea that “it’s not Racism if your descriminiatory acts and judgements favor those of specific races rather than disfavor those of specific races”, are having trouble processing the situation were the self-proclaimed representatives of an ethnic group they’ve learned to see as “victims” and “good people” are actually committing an extreme Genocide along ethnic lines.
I mean, many have change to the Humanist position that “people should be judged and treated based solely on what they support and they do, independently of race”, by many if not most are still ridding the whole “the entire race are victims” idea and de facto supporting Genocide by attacking the critics of the depraved genocidal actions of the self-proclaimed representatives of the “victim race”.
This shit would have never reached this level if it was only the openly Fascist being Racist.
I’m sure “death to the IDF” is what some people have issues with rather than “free Palestine”
chanting death for any group idendity en mass will always be controversial, even if it’s for Nazis
No, chanting death to Nazi was never controversial. It wouldn’t even be controversial if it was death to the Russian army .
You are denying Palestinians right to self defense by opposing the chant death to the IDF
You’re bubbled, it’s undeniably controversial to chant death to people, especially groups of people. By debating it you agree it’s controversial, do you even know what the word means?
Please don’t try to say I’m denying Palestinans the right to self defence because I don’t want to chant death to their oppressors. My friend, that’s a wild statement and you should pipe down
Next you’re going to tell me I’m pro Russia because I don’t agree Putin should be assassinated
If you think russian soldiers can’t be killed in ukraine then yes you would be pro russia
I never said that, I don’t think that. I have no idea why you came up with that.
I said if. So do support the occupied figjting the invaders or not?
How did you go from talking about an English artist performing in England, chanting towards an English crowd about killing foreign army, to asking if I support defending your own nation aganst invaders
Do you think I’m supporting the horrors of the IDF because I refuse to stand up and chant death to the IDF?
I go to free palistine protests in my own country, I probably do more than most but I draw the line at calling for murder.
Extremeism is scary
I guarantee you can find droves of zionists that say “free Palestine” implies the destruction of Israel and is therefore antisemitic.
I know many zionists in my neighborhood Facebook group getting mad about events rising fund to Palestinians
Anyone who thinks those statements are one and the same is delusional and not even worth talking to.
If someone can prove to me they’re not a rational human they lose my interest
zionist
delusional
Correct.
When did IDF become a protected minority group? Is saying “Death to Nazis” not allowed in the UK?
I’ll get downvoted for this but what im about to say is an undeniable fact. Chanting death for anyone is inciting violence and murder, UK governments and police can’t be allowing that, especially as there is no death penalty.
Yes I know, the IDF incite violence and murder, but does that make it OK to do in UK?
Did they say “IDF” or “IDF members/staff”? IDF isn’t a person, so maybe it’s more of a metaphorical death, as in dismantle the IDF.
I dunno.
I’ve thought about this, a metaphorical death/end to the IDF chant is completely acceptable. I guess it’s all down to intent
the artist chose “death” because it rhymes with IDF. so I wonder if it’s just one of those things
It may not be legally ok, but it is definitely morally ok to incite (and perform) violence against a genocidal force.
Crime is only legal if there’s a war. Or if you’re a cop. Or are rich and influential.
“From the river to the sea, Inshallah one day Palestine will be free!” Yeah what a vicious chant.
C.E.A.R.T.A. and Death Death to the IDF!
W Rappers L UK
Death Death to the IDFThis was on the mind of Hamas fighters on October 7th. It actually resulted in lots of death to Palestinians.
Peace and coexistence brings life, future, and prosperity to Palestinians, not eternal war.
fuckign catchy though
The chant has been living rent free in my mind for days now.
We need to start banding together and voting these pro-genocide politicians out of office.
Oh, AIPAC supports you? Enjoy getting primaried. Watching their heads spin when Cuomo lost to Mamdani was fucking gold.
The inhuman madness of finding the problem regarding this situation to be protestors of Israel’s genocide, and not the genocide, is as absurd and abhorrent as it is overwhelming.
Let’s get outraged about and strive to cancel and imprison someone who used violent language at a force that is mass-murdering children. Just surreal. What leads someone to become this fucking detached from their humanity? It’s just incomprehensible.
I hope the entire world’s eyes are by this point open to the hypocrisy of the West. Kneecap and Bob Vylan being labeled outrageous or on trial for terrorism for… words, while weapons shipments continue to flow to the IDF, Netanyahu (with an arrest warrant for war crimes) flies through EU airspace unhindered, and the bombing of civilians in Gaza generates less news than a chant at a concert. Absolutely disgusting.
Disgust and rage doesn’t come close to expressing my emotions.
This is the capitalist hydra they created- money equals morality. How can we be evil if we’re making so much money selling weapons to a genocidal terrorist state? What was that, you don’t like it? Sssh, if you hurt our cash cow we will hurt YOU.
Worshipping the golden fucking calf.
Capitalism is a form of government where instead of citizens having one vote each, they have one vote per dollar they own. It’s a cult, and it’s a fucking cancer, and it will kill us all if we don’t stop it.
Oh, don’t discount the Racism.
People aren’t being investigated by police for criticizing Russia.
If it was only about money, they wouldn’t have reacted as they did to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine given all the money many were making from Russian fossil fuels and mineral wealth.
The big difference in the reaction to Russia’s Genocide in Ukraine and to Israel’s Genocide in Gaza (which is way worse both in numbers and in how many of the civilians being murdered are small children) is that in Ukraine the victims are Whites as are the aggressors whilst in Gaza the victims are (brown) Muslims whilst the aggressors are Whites.
At least amongst the power elites, especially in places like the US, UK and Germany, White Colonialism isn’t just this old 19th century practice we fortunatelly left behind, rather it’s a way of viewing the world which very much alive and widelly held.
Racism is an inherent component of capitalism, Especially it’s late stage of decline, fascism where those in power obfuscate their culpability by redirecting the ire of the masses towards scapegoated social classes
Everything that can be used to manipulate the masses is a tool of Capitalism.
Even anti-Discrimination movements are often made a tool of Capitalism (haven’t you noticed all sorts of exploitative large companies going “rainbow”?).
Here however, I don’t think the masses are siding with the Genociders. Granted a ton of effort has been put into trying to make the masses do so (more so in some countries than others), but the scale of the depravity of the Genociders is so extreme and undeniable that it isn’t working anymore, so it’s mainly the power elites who keep supporting Israel.
Mind you, Racism is definitely being leveraged (both Islamophobia and the positive prejudice towards Jewish People which is really just a cultivated variant of pro-White prejudice - “Israel has Western Values”) to try and manipulate the masses, but I don’t think the drive amongst those in power for pushing the masses that way is a Capitalist one as it’s not clear that all that much is gained monetarily from supporting these Genociders.
Racism is a tool to manipulate the masses, but the power elites themselves aren’t immune to it and hence are also driven by it at times, Capitalism or no Capitalism.
Can we rename the Streisand Effect to Vylan Effect now?
This song of theirs is fucking fantastic btw!
Holy shit, that’s good.
To be honest I had never heard of Bob Vylan before, so the people screaming they should be banned (so they dont become known?) reached the opposite effect, at least for me personally.
Same never heard of them, but now streaming them to show support. They’re playing in my city on Saturday so might pop down.
I’ve been upping the listenership for kneecap and Bob vylan for about a month now. Saving for hard copies to help support. This all reminds me of the satanic panic that was so common when I was a kid. Such fuckery to suppress an idea.
Yeah, discovered an interesting artist through this
Found their music thanks to this and I love it.
Yep. Just picked up their albums on Bandcamp to support them. I grew up with Rage Against the Machine and my little mind was blown when Evil Empire came out - these guys remind me of them.
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Calling for death of any group is not allowed.
Gotta be fair to the genocide force of course.
Like they’re not an ethnic group or comprised of innocents. This is a force whose express intent is genocide and displacement.
Doesn’t matter. Calling for violence against any group is against TOS.
It’s a quote. From the guy in the article… you also didn’t remove the other people mentioning it here…
Gotta protect the poor organization formed explicitly for genocide…
Can’t see how you are doing exactly what the UK police is doing? 😂
Would you also just follow orders when the Nazis tell you to?
Edit: ……and my point was made. Orders successfully followed. 👏 👏 👏
That one got reported, the others did not, but since you mention it, I’ll check the rest of the thread, thanks!
Edit only one other comment advocating violence, it was also removed.
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This censorship is clear evidence of anti-masochism.
Your TOS do not prohibit it. It only prohibit call for violence against racial, ethnic groups and any minorities
Read the Sidebar, specifically Rule 6.
No, I know you won’t. Here it is, bolding is mine:
“Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.”
So I take it then, that any comment even vaguely in support of Israel will be removed as against the TOS? Because surely advocating in favour of genocide, even indirectly, is far worse than criticising the organisation actually committing that genocide?
Any comment advocating the destruction of Gaza or the Palestinians absolutely gets removed, fortunately there have been far fewer of those.
Similarly Russian and Chinese propaganda about Ukraine and the Uyghur genocide is also removed.
Speaking of Russian propaganda, is saying “Russian soldiers invading Ukraine should be killed” also bannable?
Saying anyone should be killed is removable, not bannable.
Wait, you can’t even say a group should be eliminated? Not even people, but a group‽
Is “defund the police” also a bannable offence now?
No, because defunding the police is not an extermination program. Advocate for KILLING cops? That’s going to be removed with a quickness.
Destroying an army is not an extermination program either. It’s called war. Members of that group can choose to leave that group. It’s called deserting. Under international law, the UN charter, Palestinians fighting against the IDF, using armed violence against the occupation is a legitimate war. Are you denying the right of Palestinians to fight a war for their freedom?
Absolutely not, I’m denying lemmy users ability to say anyone should be killing anyone else as per your TOS.
Don’t like it?
OK, got it. So, according to you and the rules of the community, Ukraine is supposed to defend itself with strongly worded letters to the editor. Maybe my ancestors who fought for Greek freedom and independence were violent extremists. Even got my comment removed by mod for saying as much. How lovely. The door. Of course.
I hope one day you will realize the double standard that you’re applying to the Palestinian struggle for freedom and how this double standard was part of the things that enable their Genocide. Hopefully by then, there will still be Palestinians in Palestine.
The door.
No, Ukraine can do whatever they need to do to throw off an illegal invasion and genocidal statements and actions.
YOU are not Ukraine, and if you’re going to participate here, you will abide by the rules of the community which explicitly do not advocate violence.
anyone should be killing anyone else
Or, apparently, causing property damage 🤦♂️
But we’re not talking about killing people. We’re talking about killing an organisation. If someone had said “death to Apple”, that is not the same as “death to Tim Cook and all his employees”.
We specifically ban calls for violence, if you argue “Death to Apple” in an environment where Apple stores are being firebombed, then yeah, we’d remove those statements too.
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You were warned, this is now a temp ban. Continuing to be an asshole will earn a permanent ban.
The IDF, being an occupying army, under international law is absolutely a legitimate target for violent armed Palestinian resistance. Legitimate target of violent armed resistance. It’s the law.
Great, go to Gaza and sign up. Don’t advocate for violence HERE.
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Does this include the Russian military?
What about indirect stuff such as “The Ukrainians should crush the Russian invaders” ?
Indirect stuff I generally let slide, other mods may or may not. Plausible deniability and all that.
But yes, the videos some other communities allow showing drone attacks on Russian soldiers, cheering when people get killed? We’d remove those.
Of course a top level post would be removed because we don’t allow video posts, but as a comment, I’d remove those too.
You can’t stop the mouvement and Palestinians has the right to self defense whatever you like it or not
I’m not interested in stopping anything outside bad behavior in the groups I moderate.
I have nothing to do with “the movement” and neither do you.
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Thank you for the sacrifice Vylan
Hell yeah, if you’re not ready to loose something you’re not protesting right.
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“Have the Rolling Stones killed, Smithers.”
Bob Vylan! Bloody auto spell.
Israel will be remembered in the History books the same way Germany circa 1930’s is today.
Not if the fascists keep winning.
