Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
Non-Muricans, what’s the thought on accepting US refugees?
Stand and fight, you cowards.
How are we supposed to fight a nearly endless supply of morons along with overthrowing three branches of our government?
Have you not been screaming about guns for as long as anyone alive can remember?
the morons were the ones also screaming about guns
And that stops the non-morons from using the guns to end the morons rule how?
I really don’t want people to be in situations where they need guns. And liking to use a gun is a sign of a moron - why should nice people be like them?
I used to say this a lot, but the longer i live, the more i understand that “stand and fight” requires a lot of will power, especially when you have to rub shoulder with the jarring issue daily, the very issue that makes you want to leave, and the authority doesn’t give a single fuck about it after countless report. In any case, it’s the lost of faith toward the fellow countrymen, not the administration.
Yes. It’s easier said than done. I often find myself thinking, I could do more to make my country better.
But I am just too irritated by the selfishness and privilege on display. Just relocating to a nicer country is an option that 99% do not have. You need to be young and well-educated, or be relatively wealthy. Otherwise, a rich country will simply not have you.
At the same time, those who can just pick up and leave are the same people who are most able to change things for the better. Americans are not risking their lives by speaking up. The rule of law is mostly being followed. Democratically elected representatives hold power.
Freedom and life can be taken from us, but never honor. -Otto Wels, 1933, in the final session of the elected german parliament.
“Stay in Germany and fight, your cowards”
-@[email protected] said to Jewish Refugees in 1933
You’re ignorant of history and that’s a problem.
There were fewer than 500,000 jewish Germans in 1933. That’s less than 1% of the population.
The millions who were murdered were mainly citizens of Poland and the Soviet Union. If the nations of Western Europe had prepared themselves better for war and fought with more tenacity, millions would have lived.
The absolute disaster that the Wehrmacht inflicted on the Soviet Union is largely the result of Stalin’s defects. Dictators are bad; an obvious lesson. A less obvious lesson comes from the Generalplan Ost. The Nazis wanted to murder much of the population east of Germany; Poles, Czecks, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians, and others. Many tens of millions of individual human beings were to be killed, mainly through hunger. Then the territory was to be settled by Germans, That’s the whole Lebensraum thing.
Where should all these people have gone?
That’s why the Ukrainians today don’t have a choice. Putin wants to eradicate the ukrainian ethnicity. We know that. We don’t know how many people he is willing to murder; to physically eradicate. Would you take the chance?
In 1939, immediately before WW2 and the holocaust, the MS St. Louis sailed with 900 jewish refugees from Nazi Germany to Cuba. But Cuba refused to take them in, as it had just hardened its laws. The ship sailed to Canada and the USA, but they, too, refused. Something, something, race.
Eventually, the UK, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands took pity on these people and gave them shelter. Obviously, many of those on the continent were murdered in the Holocaust.
Where do you think 65 million US Latinos will go? They live in the US and they will die in the US. One way or the other.
You’re condemning a lot of innocent people to die.
Cut the histrionics. Americans aren’t being massacred. They are only asked to go to some minor inconvenience to uphold their country’s democracy.
The distance between Chicago and Las Vegas is greater than between Berlin and the Russian front line in Ukraine. Are Germans supposed to feel pity for you poor darlings?
Only an idiot would stay and do that, if there are better opportunities out there. Furthermore intellectuals, scientists are the first to flee a fascist states, as they are the target of persecution first and foremost. Have you not been to history classes? Immigrants came here to flee from persecution form those countries, that you can get straight up murdered or jailed even before you pull a trigget
What on Earth do you think is going to happen if we stand up to a militarized police force larger than the world has ever seen? You’re telling us to “stand up and fight” against a 30-trillion dollar army of bloodthirsty armed pseudo-soldiers.
I don’t want or expect your pity. But I would like you to try for empathy, if you can muster it. Good luck.
The Netherlands probably, but with the massive grain of salt that I suspect that choosing a “ideal place to live” without actually having been to that place is likely to result in a skewed idea of what a place is truly like, and as I’ve never been outside the United States I have that issue when thinking about any other country. I also doubt they or anywhere else that might make my list of ideal places would want me, seeing as I’m just some random factory worker without any especially rare skill.
To me The Netherlands is just weed, bikes, trains, and canals. Sounds great.
I’m also fairly sure it’s not going to be as great as it sounds. And the language will probably be annoying and not very useful elsewhere.
[email protected] Netherlands also has a xenophobia problem. It’s not as progressive as people think, at least not anymore.
That being said, it’s not a bad country. Also one of the easiest EU countries for Americans to immigrate to.
Also one of the easiest EU countries for Americans to immigrate to.
What makes it easy?
[email protected] well, easy is relative, but it’s this treaty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT
Morocco or Jordan. Been trying to learn Arabic for a few years and would love to be forced to take it more seriously. Mostly can just read the letters. They are relatively safe countries that are in areas of the world I have studied extensively. Also means closer travel to many of the old cities I want to visit.
Jordan is a great country. Lived there for awhile. The people were great. Israel being so close isn’t fun though. Morocco would be a safer bet imo.
That is true, but I would really like to live in the region and Jordan is probably the safest bet. Otherwise Morocco is the smart choice for arabic speaking nation tolerant of Americans with a reasonable margin for safety. I won’t be leaving anytime soon either way, this is more of a dream living abroad answer for right now. I intend to vote, protest and be a pain in the ass until they drive me out.
Jordan is definitely the safest of the ones in the direct area assuming things haven’t dramatically shifted since I was there.
Here in Canada we’re trying to catch America’s brain drain. We especially need doctors quite desperately.
doctors
How’s the demand for nurses? I’ll be finishing up nursing school in less than a year! :D
Or support staff? I’m a surgical tech now, and some of my coworkers (other techs, schedulers - bottom of the medical food chain, but still with specialty experience) feel trapped here by their lack of higher education.
Check out bchealthcareers.ca for an example of what is being done to encourage medical professionals to make the move to Canada. This site is B.C. specific but it includes doctors, nurses, and allied health professions.
Nurses and caretaker staff “Pflege” are needed here in Germany too, but not sure how viable the pay is.
Afaik pay isn’t that bad, it’s working conditions that suck.
Depends. I know some nirses that work as “OP Schwestern” and they make good money.
But you can not compare a german Krankenpflegerin/Krankenpfleger with an US Nurse.
Non-murican - strongly feel preference should be given to genuine refugees fleeing war, famine etc where they have absolutely no ability to influence their fate other than escape. The US is a failed democracy but the people there have barely begun to challenge their government compared to what we have seen elsewhere in the world. And there is still refuge available in blue states. US citizens need to stand up and fight. Then if they fail, only then do they get to go in the queue with the genuine humanitarian refugees. I don’t like queue jumpers. Sorry but impingement on your civil liberties doesn’t compare with families in war torn parts of the world living in fear fear of having their limbs blown off every night.
Ofcourse business around the world would like to cherry pick talent for in demand jobs. They prefer not to invest in developing local people when they can import experienced talent for less. So people with in demand skills will get in that way, not as refugees.
I don’t mean to naysay but this isn’t reduced civil rights people are fleeing. The US is building concentration camps and has recently approved expanding their budget for ICE (originally immigration enforcement, now a gestapo analogue) such that it is larger than most world militaries.
This is naziism people are fleeing. This is death camps people are fleeing.
And those people fleeing genuine threat should be welcomed as refugees. American voting citizens however, need to get their assess out on the streets and actually start challenging the police, ICE and government, instead of fleeing what they created.
Costa Rica 🇨🇷
Our country attracts a lot of American tourists, they mainly go to the beaches and national parks but I have seen them on my city sometimes
I’m fine with it, I highly suggest you learn Spanish since we are a Spanish-speaking country, and you can only see English on the tourist areas
Also if you want to become a citizen you need to do some sort of exam that for most foreign people is hard. Just so y’all know
Learning Spanish thoroughly would be difficult, but I think I could get to conversational with a couple months effort. Taking tests is my one great talent. Tests don’t scare me. History? Government? Society? I will learn that in a week if I can read the material I will be tested on.
Finding work scares me. I can’t live outside the country for my current job.
Hi, I am an American and will be visiting your country very soon! I’ve never been outside of the US and know very little Spanish. I’m going with a family member who is getting dental work done and well be in San Jose. We’re very excited for the trip, do you have any tips for first timers?
Thanks for visiting us!
Regarding San Jose, unfortunately there isn’t a lot to do there, the most you can do is visit museums (National Museum, Pre-Columbian Gold Museum, Jade Museum, alongside others, visit some volcanoes (Poás, Irazu, and maybe the Turrialba Volcano), visit old buildings (Plaza de la Cultura as an example), and that’s pretty much it
I think you would like places like Monteverde or La Fortuna.
Regarding money exchange, do it on Banco Nacional (BN) or in Banco de Costa Rica (BCR). If you do it on the airport or in any other place you might be scammed
Use Uber, if you use taxis they will know you’re a tourist and will charge you the double
Avoid Jaco, it’s kind of dangerous
And finally, be careful with prices on the airport, a lot of things are overpriced such as this
I appreciate the response. We’ll try our best to get out to some of the other towns, but our main focus is the dental work. I appreciate all of the tips and suggestions!
Don’t plan to be in San Jose. Doesn’t have more to give for tourist than maybe a day of museums.
Also even with a gringo accent, you’ll fit right in /jk
You might be surprised. I love this country so much.
I like it too. Just making some fun on their Spanish.
It makes it easier to learn! When I talk to most Mexicans they speak so fast and have so much slang it’s hard to learn or even understand for me.
I love your country and am considering moving there. I just got divorced and I’m going to do a big shake up of my life. If I don’t get this job in Texas and I can get my balls in order, I might just do it. Ticos son la gente muy generoso y amistosa. Tengo solo un poco español pero vivir en Costa Rica? Yo estudio muy rapido en la pais.
Californian - i want us, oregon, and washington to join canada.
It would be a dream if CANZUK happened, then it was joined by California and Cascadia. We could call it CACACANZUK.
That said, you would already be a powerful nation without joining anyone else. Don’t wait for us to get organised.
I feel like if CA were to leave the US it would join Mexico, not Canada
Rejoin
fuck no lol joining mexico is submitting yourself to the rule of cartels. Theyre super corrupt.
Mexico == cartels???
the cartels hold massive influence over the govt, straight up killing their legislators in significant numbers at times.
There is serious violence, but CA has law enforcement in place with experience dealing with the Cartels. The power they weild in Mexican Government would be outweighed by the 30% increase in population and the doubling of the size of the Mexican Economy.
Of course the violence that would be required to result in CA leaving the union might result in destruction of that economy. Hard to say.
For anyone who’s thinking UK, I’d advise not - we’re about 4-5 years behind you in terms of imminent fascism and whilst there’s still technically a chance to avert it, its very unlikely - especially since Starmer is being even more awful than the Tories.
Just to add: The xenophobic riot last year…
Especially a bad idea if you are Muslim, Arab, or just look “Middle-Eastern”.
Or if you’re transgender (it’s called “TERF Island” for a reason)
Also, God, the weather
The weather is the main reason I’d want to go there. I prefer dreary.
Vote for Ed Davie if you get the chance.
UK was formerly on my shortlist but was removed a few years ago.
Probably Finland, or another Nordic country. Idk, I just like the cold and the woods and figure those oughtta fit the bill
As a member of the CAF, if the US Armed Forces are getting rid of LGBTQ folks, I would be proud to welcome them as my comrades in arms.
Canadian Air Force?
Canada is certainly on my list of hopeful places.
Not quite. CAF is Canadian Armed Forces. The Air Force, specifically is the RCAF.
Thanks
Canadian here. I’ll welcome anyone who voted against Trump.
Those who voted for Trump or didn’t vote at all can die in a ditch.
Thank you for that. For me, if I make a big move, especially out of country, I gotta go somewhere warm. I live in the mountains of WV and last winter nearly ended my life, for real. I was just talking this through with a friend- is it better to flee or stand our ground against the fascists?
I’m Canadian. I don’t mind accepting American refugees as long as we also learn to accept refugees from other countries and value them all equally, but our current government isn’t doing that.
So, it’s not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn’t an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you’re taking notes, that’s pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I’m not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I’d lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I’d have just bought one here. I didn’t save enough to make it worth it.
I’m not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney’s office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I’m not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn’t care because they got to vote for team ® in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I’ve tried hard to remove it. I’ve tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight
As someone who thinks that. Sounds like you already fought your fight. And if you already tried it’s fair enough to move on.
Thanks. I care a lot about liberty and freedom. I think they come with duty and responsibility. Even though we are anonymous strangers on the internet, I want you to know that I respect everyone who stays and fights either because they cant leave or they choose not to. I hope you all win. I can still vote in federal elections, and I will continue to do so.
I’m glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.
I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.
There were some very fucked up things happening in our very red state, both in general and to us in particular. We had considered something similar, like moving to Maine or Vermont. These things happened just at the right time in 2024 that it was obvious that trump was going to win, but we still had time to plan to get out before he did.
We figured if we were going to go through the hassle of moving far enough away that any friends or family were going to fly to come vist us, that just moving to a blue state wasn’t good enough. We figured that when trump was reelected that even blue states wouldn’t be safe enough.
And believe me, I am well aware of how fortunate I am, because I was not always so fortunate. I realize that not everyone can do it. There were a couple of women married to each other that lived near us that were scared as hell, but they couldn’t afford to move to any of the places they were researching.
do
Even if a Democrat got reelected the bbb ensures that it makes it look like the DEms are at fault considered the cuts will be in act after the elections, and then you have the D being complicit to the whole takeover by the GOp as well
I researched Canada thoroughly, and I think I even (used to, before trump’s shenanigans) qualify for expedited citizenship. I also work remotely, for a global company, and will just keep my job. Unfortunately there were just too many costs involved, and I couldn’t foot the bill. It sucks, because you get a lot more house for a lot fewer dollars up there. I haven’t given up though. But it’s at least a year or two down the road.
Canadas housing situation is worse than the US I thought, at least in the places most people live.
I can’t really speak to that. I can only speak to the fact that the houses I was looking at were what I would consider a very good value for the money, at least compared to what you can get in the US these days.
Good luck then!
Já maður, Bandaríkin sökka velkominn til landsins.
Takk fyrir.
Bombandi, já maður! Velkomin/n!
Má ég spyrja: Hvers vegna Ísland? Hvernig gengur að læra tungumálið? Hvernig gengur að finna vinnu? Nærðu að vingast við fólk?
(Feel free to respond in English, it’s a bitch of a language to learn)
Ok, without cheating, I can read:
_____, yeah man! Welcome.
May I ask, why Iceland? How goes learning the language? How goes finding work? Something something with people?
So, Iceland is rated top 5 in pretty much every happiness or quality of life rating there is. They are still focused on freedom and education of people, so hopefully the descent into fascism is much further away. Also, I have some allergies that are causing other problems, so moving to a place with many months of no pollen was a good thing for me. That and the northern lights make the winter a positive for me, not a negative.
Learning the language is hard, as you say. I’ve been very lucky to move to a place and make friends with a lot of people who are helping me learn a lot. They have patience with me and repeat things slowly. I try to pick up a few words a day. I am maybe at the level of a toddler. I can pick out enough words and read body language well enough to get the context, but I can’t really make sentences well. And all of the people helping me learn is a double edged sword. They don’t want to act like talking to a toddler all day, so we end up speaking English a lot.
The work thing is turning out pretty ok. I might be able to get a bit of consulting gig going, or I may look for a remote job in Europe. Maybe both. I’m very fortunate to have money enough to pay cash for a decent house and have money enough to live off of for a few years once I don’t have rent to pay, so that hasn’t been as much of a priority for me. This has been more of a vacation for a bit.
So I cheated to find out the last question: Do I manage to make friends with people? Yes! This has been the biggest surprise. Most sources that we read on the internet told us that as a foreigner, wed always be on the outsiders. The perspective that we read is that everyone is everyone’s frændi, and we’re just always going to be on the outside. Perhaps we got very lucky, but it seems that we’ve found a way to become a part of the local community. It’s a little village in the north, so it’s perhaps better to make friends than in the capitol. They mostly seem to be happy to see people actually moving in instead of out.
Æðislegt! Gaman að heyra!
Yeah the friend thing is always tricky but if you’re open (as you clearly are) there’s always a community to be found with some tenacity!
Glad to have you 🤘
As a Canadian, it appears to me that most of the Americans who want to move here are doing so because they like and support the way that Canada is currently functioning, and that’s fine by me.
Immigrants who want the country to change for them are problematic. I almost think that first generation immigrants shouldn’t get to vote, it should be a gift to their children rather than themselves. That shouldn’t even need the child to be born in Canada, I’d actually be fine with anyone who goes through at least half their primary education (so let’s say grade 7 or younger) here being included if they moved here with their parents when they were younger.
i think if i immigrated to Canada I’d fight for First Nations rights and want it to change in favor of that
Why would you assume that every single (non American) immigrant that comes here would want to change the way Canada is run? Considering the vast majority come here because they like the way it’s run. This is such a wild take.
Besides, the politics of this country were built on genocide and do not reflect the values of the land’s original caretakers that were here for tens of thousands of years. But I guess those first immigrants were correct in changing the way things are run here and so we should be upholding their values and their values only??
I hate the original people argument. There is no land on this earth that wasn’t conquered multiple times. Even the first nations in North America warred against each other and took land from each other many times before the Europeans showed up. It wasn’t a giant happy campfire singalong for 10,000 years.
Okay, but given your original comment that the people who “are already here” (eg. Canadian citizens) should be the only ones to vote, you do seem to be lending weight to the idea that people who were already here should be making the decisions.
Do you think that the first immigrants (settlers) to come here from England and France should also not have been allowed to decide on how the country was run? Or is it only new immigrants that shouldn’t be allowed a voice in government? What’s the cutoff?
I think they took the land, just like everyone else has been taking land for all of human history, and applying modern government concepts to something that happened a few hundred years ago is stupid.
We can try to prevent future injustices, we can fix wrongs that occurred in the lifetimes of people who are alive (like reparations for residential schools) but trying to go back and change things for anything done prior to anyone alive existing is stupid.
So the cutoff is “is anyone still alive that it directly happened to” and descendents do not count.
I wish I’d married a Canadian in 2004 when the getting was good, haha.
I even speak some French.
Honestly the Netherlands seems pretty great.
How’s the food?
Dutch food is pretty bland, but plenty of Indonesian, Moroccan and Turkish immigrants to add some desperately needed variety.
A great thing about my area of the U.S is it’s very diverse in the food scene and idk how to find something like this elsewhere in other countries.
