I get the sentiment and I’d agree, but it would be so much easier if not over half the Israeli population is now supporting a genocide. You think they know better, of all people
Yeah, Israeli public opinion is not helping any moral or sane cause. But that’s still no reason for those few human beings on this planet who are still sane to embrace racism.
Jewish people and groups around the world need to issue strong rejection of Israel’s actions.
If they don’t, i’m very concerned that Israel’s crimes will fall back on them in the future.
Condemnation of Israel’s actions won’t protect Jews around the world.
Do you think it’s safer to support genocide?
It will protect them from the free palestine crowd, but not from anti-semites. Is there a downside though?
The free palestine crowd contains and covers for antisemites among their ranks.
I’m sure contains, though I doubt there’s a complete overlap, not covers for. People who want a literal genocide to end aren’t automatically antisemites or antisemite apologists. Nor are antisemites, especially Trumper antisemites, automatically in favor of Palestine.
Well yeah, obviously. There are anti-semites everywhere. I meant those whose motivations are “free palestine,” which in my estimate is the main motivation of the free palestine crowd when viewed as a whole – not antisemitism. I don’t mean to say that there don’t exist people who are aligned with free-palestine just because they’re anti-semitic. But there’s no protection from those people either way – so, no downside.
Are you asking every Chinese person to denounce China‘s government for the Uyghurs or Tibet?
No, why?
Why are you asking every Jew to it then?
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Let’s look at sentiment from different groups
Young and liberal associate them with Israeli genocide.
Young and conservative is full of full on Nazis.
Politically they aren’t worth much being concentrated in liberal strongholds.
When the old folks who are pro Israel go into the grounds dislike will be a rare point of agreement. Not a great position.
This thread is going so “it’s bad to call for the genocide of israel” i had to re-read the meme.
It says “expell israelis to europe”… it doesn’t say “kill’em all”, wtf is wrong with this thread? Or am i missing something?And no, a one state solution is not possible, as shown after over 70 years. Unless that state was to be ruled and controlled by the UN and all other military forces completely dismantled - so, not gonna happen.
It would be slightly less unrealistic if the UN was to enforce the Green Line, ensuring the West Bank and Gaza are entirely in control of Palestinians.Both fail 'cos the UN has no teeth.
Full embargo on israel, especially on weapons, could work, but, again, hypocrites of this world won’t let it happen.
Albert Einstein is 100% correct. Read his letter to the NY Times.
Care to post it here?
i think it’s this:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/einstein/1948/12/02.htm
To the Editors of the New York Times:
Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the “Freedom Party” (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.
The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin’s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.
Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin’s behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.
The public avowals of Begin’s party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.
Attack on Arab Village
A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants240 men, women, and childrenand kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.
The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.
Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.
During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.
The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.
Discrepancies Seen
The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a “Leader State” is the goal.
In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin’s efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.
The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.
ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ, HANNAH ARENDT, ABRAHAM BRICK, RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO, ALBERT EINSTEIN, HERMAN EISEN, M.D., HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN, M.D., H.H. HARRIS, ZELIG S. HARRIS, SIDNEY HOOK, FRED KARUSH, BRURIA KAUFMAN, IRMA L. LINDHEIM, NACHMAN MAISEL, SEYMOUR MELMAN, MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D., HARRY M. OSLINSKY, SAMUEL PITLICK, FRITZ ROHRLICH, LOUIS P. ROCKER, RUTH SAGIS, ITZHAK SANKOWSKY, I.J. SHOENBERG, SAMUEL SHUMAN, M. SINGER, IRMA WOLFE, STEFAN WOLFE.
New York, Dec. 2, 1948
Shit can I get expelled back to Britain? They got their own problems but fuck, my family is in the domesday book, can I go back?
Israel is allowed to literally cause a holocaust on the Palestinian people for the last 70+ years, backed by seemingly the majority of the political landscape and the population. Israelis chanting death to entire ethnicities but nooooo we can’t say anything that might hurt their poor lil feelings. Bunch of bollocks. You lot are a bunch of clowns that are entirely too comfortable with the deaths of brown people.
Israelis chanting death to entire ethnicities but nooooo we can’t say anything that might hurt their poor lil feelings. Bunch of bollocks. You lot are a bunch of clowns that are entirely too comfortable with the deaths of brown people.
“I just want to advocate for genocide! What’s the harm in that, other than some hurt feelings!?”
Okay, Zionist.
Hmm that’s a dumb reply. Please try better.
Man, you’re the one complaining that it’s not acceptable to advocate for genociding people of the wrong ethnicity because Israel did it first. Not really sure I’d trust the opinion of someone who wants to imitate Israel on what’s dumb or not.
Please show me where I have advocated for genocide of anyone or are you simply projecting here?
Also what do you mean with “the wrong ethnicity”?
I don’t want any innocent people to be harmed, no matter what religion or ethnicity. I do however think that the Palestinians at least deserve their land back that was stolen from them through relentless murder. Equally, hold those responsible accountable.
There are countless Jewish people around the world that are against the zionists murderous state of Israel. Are they also wrong?
He likes to equate decolonization to genocide, to him they are the same thing.
“Decolonization is when you ethnically cleanse civilians for being born the wrong ethnicity. It’s DEFINITELY different from genocide!”
Literal Nazi shit. If you were raised in Israel, you’d be an enthusiastic Zionist murdering Palestinians right now.
Decolonization is when you ethnically cleanse civilians for being born the wrong ethnicity. It’s DEFINITELY different from genocide!"
Lol, you are ridiculously hyperbolic and purposely conflating terms to the point where they don’t mean anything.
Once again you are ignoring the fact that Israel is the one who is dictating policy based on ethnicity. Meaning that it is they who makes it impossible to delineate the ethno from the state.
Would it be better if people just said Israeli nationals? Would it be ethnic cleansing if someone claimed Americans should be kicked out of tribal lands?
Literal Nazi shit. If you were raised in Israel, you’d be an enthusiastic Zionist murdering Palestinians right now.
Projecting much? You’re the one defending colonialism…
Please show me where I have advocated for genocide of anyone or are you simply projecting here?
You’re complaining that I’m objecting to people who are advocating for literal genocide against Israel under the justification that advocating racist genocide is just ‘hurting Israeli feelings’ and thus harmless and should be asspatted instead. That’s literally your comment I responded to, genius.
There are countless Jewish people around the world that are against the zionists murderous state of Israel. Are they also wrong?
No. In the fucking title I even allude to a one-state solution, which would be to the horror of most fervent Israel supporters. Sorry that I think that genocide isn’t a Final Solution to the problem of Israel??
fuck zionists, but they aren’t evil because they are Jewish, they are evil because their are zionists.
that’s like saying fuck white people because there majority of Israelis are white.
and so many loud antizionist voices are Jewish.
if you conflate the two (what Israel wants) you just feed into the Israeli narrative that we all hate the jews and they can only be safe in apartheid genocidal Israel.
which is BS.
literally cause a holocaust on the Palestinian people for the last 70+ years
Either you don’t know what happened during the Holocaust, or you don’t know what happens to Palestinians. These are in not the same, very far from it.
This is Holocaust relativism, bordering on denial.
That said. Palestinians are oppressed and deserve better. Your antisemitic incitement does not help them.
Interesting, what term would you use to describe what has been happening in Palestine and specifically since the last 21 months?
specifically since the last 21 months
This war was triggered by a horrific and unprecedented attack on Israeli civilians on October 7th. A very destructive war in a dense urban setting against an extremely deeply entrenched fanatic enemy hiding among civilians.
There have also been war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity.
If you compare the physical destruction of buildings with the number of killed Palestinians, it becomes pretty obvious that killing the people is not a priority war goal.
There is pretty horrific rhetoric during war times, which has enabled war crimes.
Any other government would have surrendered long ago. Hamas refuses to do so, despite the immense military superiority of the IDF, regardless of the destruction and loss of life it costs.
Your nonsense reply tells me everything I need to know. Thanks for playing.
Israel is allowed to literally cause a holocaust on the Palestinian people for the last 70+ years
Palestine’s population has increased every single one of those 70+ years including the years after the October 7 attacks.
And? What’s your point? Does that make killing of innocents in a stolen land justified? Are you brain damaged?
The point is that it isn’t a Holocaust and that such a lose use of the word is dangerous
Oh sorry, I forgot. Such serious terms can only be used when white people are in danger. Silly me.
Nobody takes you seriously when you max out on the hyperbole.
And now you’re just wildly accusing people of racism for pointing out facts. What is it you’re hoping to accomplish by this?
And now you’re just wildly accusing people of racism for pointing out facts. What is it you’re hoping to accomplish by this?
Smokescreen for their support of genociding Israelis.
Interesting, what term would you use for what’s been happening in Palestine?
Actually, technically, officially
“Israel” (declared may 1948) existed before “Palestine” (declared 1988).
The Jews and the Arabs have both been there for millennia, and the land has been contested since the dawn of recorded history.
It was originally called Canaan in the late Bronze Age (1500 - 1200 BCE).
Then in the Iron Age it was called Judea.
Then the Romans conquered the land and called it Syria Palestina (the land of Syrian “Phillistines”, aka uncultured/uncivilized people.)
Later that evolved into Palestine, which wasn’t codified until 1988, 40 years after the formation of Israel.
Both peoples have been there for millennia, both peoples have been committing atrocities on one another, and both peoples have a legitimate claim to the land.
This isn’t a simple black and white issue with good guys and bad guys. Claiming Israel is the bad guys because they’re the current aggressors, is like walking in on a fight and accusing the one who’s currently winning of being the whole reason for the fight in the first place.
You have to know the whole story, unbiased, looking from both sides, to understand a current conflict.
These lands and these people’s need outside arbitration.
They’re incapable of coming to a peaceful solution on their own. They’re too proud and they both feel too entitled and righteous.
One of them is currently more monied and has more support from imperialist governments, but they’ve both done horrible things to one another and ended millions of eachothers lives over millennia.
Israel is trying to put an end to it forever in the most effective way they can think of.
Violence.
It’s not fair.
If you study history, you will see not much about us is fair.
In recent times we have become abnormally civilized, but only just barely.
One of them is currently more monied and has more support from imperialist governments, but they’ve both done horrible things to one another and ended millions of eachothers lives over millennia.
Israel is trying to put an end to it forever in the most effective way they can think of.
Violence.
Are you not aware that Iran supports Hamas? Are you pretending October 7 didn’t happen?
I think you’re being very selective in your reading of history.
Iran is trying to put an end to Israel through violence and colonialism. They support violent oppressive factions throughout the middle east.
There have been land for peace deals negotiated in the past, there’s a willingness in Israel to make peace. But Iran gives support to violent factions like Hamas. Hamas has oppressively ruled over Gaza for over a decade and a half with the support of Iran.
Iran also supports the violent Houthi faction in Yemen which rules over a large part of that country (including the capital). The civil war there has been over 300,000 dead. They supported Assad’s regime a brutally oppressive faction that took a civil war with over half a million dead before he was ousted from power.
How many people need to die in this insane theocratic authoritarian regime’s goal to wipe Israel off the map before you’ll consider the possibility that they might be a problem?
I’m aware of all of that.
The Arab-Israeli civil war of 1948 (Arabs call it the Nakba) actually started because of the first rejection by the Arabs of a peaceful two state partition.
In the Palestinian mind, right from the start of the Balfour Declaration in 1917, the British and the European Jews were seen as an invading force, and the formation of Israel was seen as the entrenchment of that invading force.
Prior to the Balfour Declaration and British backed migration of the European Jews, the Arabs outnumbered the Jews 10 to 1 in that region, and it was unofficially considered to be their lands. They saw the mass migration as an invasion and a threat to their sovereignty and culture, as peoples generally do.
Today only 44% of people living within the territory of Palestine are Arabs, and 52% are Jews.
Based on these numbers it would seem they were right to be afraid.
I think that pre-Israeli zionists literally used the slogan of “Arabs out!” might have contributed to early 20th century suspicions that zionism was a fundamentally invading and colonial ideology. But that’s just me.
How many people need to die in this insane theocratic authoritarian regime’s goal to wipe Israel off the map before you’ll consider the possibility that they might be a problem?
The issue is that the genocide has been going on longer than Iran and Israel have been enemies. And even if it wasn’t older, Iran supporting shitty factions (which, funny enough, are also supported by Israel - Hamas being a Mossad catspaw from the start) does not justify Israeli genocide of Palestinians.
You fucking sound like an Uyghur genocide apologist ghoul.
I’m definitely not. Israel isn’t sterilizing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians like we see happening to the Uyghurs.
The meme itself is fine.
But shilling a one-state solution with it?
Not cool.
Wait, what’s not cool about a one-state solution?
I’m not opposed to a two-state solution, but generally a one-state solution is considered the more radical option, so I picked it to emphasize that I’m not asking anyone to be pro-Israel.
I don’t know what you thoght when typing up the post, but I do know what I understood when I read it.
A one-state solution is “never” going to work because that’s the current solution. There’s one state of Israel and no state of Palestine. And currently, Israel hasn’t show itself to be all too nice to the palestinians, what with the settling, apartheid and recently as transparent genocide as it gets.
What a one state solution will do is keep the current oppressive power structures. Meaning nothing will truly change. The Israeli press has shown itself to be very anti-Palestinian, and a lot of the population is indoctrinated to think Jews are entitled to settle the land at all costs towards the Palestinians.
There are a lot of examples on YouTube of ‘regular’ Israelis talking of it in the most gruesome and off-putting words imaginable. One might call it cognitive dissonance, but it’s pure indoctrination.
And breaking such indoctrination, cultivated potentialy since the dawn of the sigle state, takes both time and effort.
Effort which is most lukely to succeed were the Palestinians given their own, fully autonomus, UN-recognized and in all aspects equal state free from Israeli control of all types.
Why?
Because Israel has shown itself to be unworthy of having authority over Palestinians.
Systematic oppression needs an equally systematic way of undoing it. Any attepmts at molding the current power structures are unlikely to stop the mistreatment of Palestinians.
The current Israel was and continues to be a one-state solution. A failed solution, that lead to the current genocide. The only way in which such a solution would work is through radical changes to the power structures of the current State, or a new one altogether. One with new laws, a new government, artificially made to overrepresent Palestinians to try to undo the equally artificial, but ingrained in Israeli society opression of them.
Previous such solutions have had a very bad success rate. Such an artificial state is truly like a house of cards. A bad compromise. Neither side is happy for a long time - both feel entitled to more than they get.
So in my humble opinion, one could say that Israel has been given a chance to govern the Palestinians. What they ended up doing is commiting systematic opression a d as of late, a very transparent genocide against them.
If you ask me, any goodwill they’ve gotten to that end was rescinded as of late, and anything less than a two-state solution will be rewarding the perpetrators.
Obligatorily: I’m not saying that Israelis are all genocidal maniacs, or activelly commiting genocide. But the state, their state, is. And such a state cannot reasonably be expected to stop of its own accord or by a finger-wag from the UN. Since the figer-wagging has been done consistently for quite some time now, way before the recent escalations.
A one-state solution is “never” going to work because that’s the current solution.
Again, that’s not what “one-state solution” means. “One-state solution” necessarily implies, for one, that there is a current problem in need of a solution; it would be extremely strange to say “The solution to the problem is the status quo.”
When people say “One-state solution”, they generally mean a single state encompassing all of Palestine and Israel with equal rights.
So, there being one state isn’t a solution?
And how would you solve it?
By not changing the fact that there’s one state non-solution out there?
Of course there’s a problem. But you seem to imply as if the problem is brand-new and no solutions have been tried. Not doing anything (or in this case enough) is a solution. A bad one, for sure, but even not doing anything requires some action.
One state with equal rights will not happen. And how do I know that?
I’m acquainted with the history of the Middle East.
This isn’t the first conflict between Israel and Palestine by a long shot. Israel’s had plenty of ample opportunities to show some humanity, humility and respect for human rights. We all know very well how they answered that call.
As I see it, there are three hypotheitical possibilities (scenarios) with a one state “solution” (as if it’ll be anything new):
a) Nothing changes (obviously). Palestibians keep being opressed. The war and the genocide stops, but in essence, they stay opressed.
b) The Israeli government falls. Palestinians take over. The opressors become the oppressed. Again, nothing fundamentally changes, just the roles swap.
c) A magical “middle-way” coalition wins power. All current laws get rewritten. Palestinians get equal rights, and a way to reclaim lost land. Everyone is happy.
I hope you see how only one of these makes aby sense in the real world. One is impossible, and the other a fucking fairytale (read: equally as impossible).
A two-state solution lets Bibi do what he’s been doing (Fascism Lite), while stopping the genocide and giving Palestinians basic human rights.
Anything else isn’t a realistic solution (read: it’ll never work or quickly break down with the current simulation parameters).
I would argue that a two-state solution is equally unlikely under the current circumstances.
But my overall point is not whether a one-state solution is viable, only that it is ideal, and I used it in the title to emphasize that I am not arguing against even people who want to completely dissolve the state of Israel as it exists now, but only against the idea that directly making statements that are antisemitic or in favor of ethnic cleansing is what I’m objecting to.
To paraphrase: I wouldn’t argue it’s a viable solution, merely that it’s the ideal one.
Wouldn’t the ideal solution also need to be viable, at the very least?
While I’m also not arguing against the people denying Israel’s right to exist, I am also not arguing for them either.
And about antisemitism: I’d like to think of myself as against all types of totalitarian control and oppression. I’m also very lucky to not have a personal stake in any armed conflict current or past, which I feel gives me relatively unclouded judgement. I’m also very much against genocide, as I view it as a specific form of oppression.
Now, whether or not I am an antisemite largely defends on how you define the word.
I’d like to think that i’m not. However, that assumes the “classic” definition of antisemitism - having something against the Jews by way of religion or ethnicity and discriminating because of that.
I have something (a lot, in fact) against oppression and genocide. If not supporting everything Israel says and does uncritically and without reservation then yes, I am antisemitic. I do not support Israel’s genocide.
Hovewer, I feel this “new” use of the term is only going to harm not only Israel’s interests, but all Jews (Jews themselves inherently, not merely “their interests”). Abusing the term to refer to any dissent from Israeli policy will only remove all “teeth” from the original meaning. Of course, I wouldn’t want that, but that’s what I not only feel will happen, but is already happening, and it’s not because of me.
As always, Israel doesn’t represent all Jews, nor do all Jews constitute Israel. Much less so if we look at Israeli leaders’ official stance and world outlook. Conflating the three is a grave mistake.
Genocide is the Isreali one state solution.
One state with equal rights solution is the least popular among the people living there. Nobody there wants it.
Two states have a much better acceptance.
two state solution is never going to work.
Israel is already a one state solution, as it contols all the territory and if commited to apartheid and genocide.
one democratic state is the only viable solution, just end apartheid, expand the racist right of return.
one democratic state is the only viable solution, just end apartheid, expand the racist right of return.
That’s what most people mean when they say one-state solution, though.
yhea, was agreeing.
i dream of returning there, once apartheid is destroyed
Inshallah.
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So fighting genocide with ethnic cleansing.
Crazy idea, but maybe we should end our dependence on oil? Wars cost money and we fund those wars when we buy oil. We pretend to be upset when we see the suffering caused by war, but then vote for whoever we think will bring down the price of gas and then pretend we don’t understand why there’s war in an oil rich region of the world.
Though I see few anti-semitic remarks, other than the ones about Palestinians.
In general, or in this thread?
In general, anti-Palestinian racism is more common here in the West, yes.
In this thread, there are multiple people, who are highly upvoted, who are making claims like “Genociding Israelis is okay if Israel committed genocide first” and “Their ancestors came from Europe, so even though they were born in the Levant, they aren’t REAL natives and it’s okay to deport them”, both of which are deeply antisemitic.
You are misrepresenting the meaning of the term antisemitism. It’s a more polite and scientific sounding word for Jew hatred. That’s it’s only meaning, it has nothing to do with Palestinians. Look it up.
Trying to soften and twist the meaning of antisemitism is antisemitic.
We’ve tried a 1 state solution for a long time
It’s probably time to start aknowledging the goal of Zionism is to take land from others, and aknowledge that the Zionist have too much influence in politics.
It’s either the Zionists go, or we just have to accept that Isreal wants to behave like a fascist colonizer and cut ties
It’s either the Zionists go, or we just have to accept that Isreal wants to behave like a fascist colonizer and cut ties
Cutting ties isn’t advocating genocide against Israelis though.
If we look at the modern history of the reigon, the Zionist have been the agressors since NATO made the choice to just give the Palestinians’ land to the Zionists, because the Zionists wanted the land and had an excuse/sympathy after WW2.
There hasn’t been a political party in Isreal capable of being peaceful and fair with their neighbors.
If we look at the modern history of the reigon, the Zionist have been the agressors since NATO made the choice to just give the Palestinians’ land to the Zionists, because the Zionists wanted the land and had an excuse/sympathy after WW2.
NATO wasn’t founded until over a year after Israel was. Soviet aid, in fact, was instrumental in saving Israel after it was founded in '48.
There hasn’t been a political party in Isreal capable of being peaceful and fair with their neighbors.
Okay? That still doesn’t justify genocide?
If you want to be pedantic about what NATO was called when the same members were just the allied forces then idk if we can talk about this in good faith.
Okay? That still doesn’t justify genocide?
Jews are not being currently genocided, Zionists are currently genociding Palestinians. So I feel like that’s what is most valid to focus on.
It seems like most of the “antisemitism” that appeared out of nowhere in the last couple months is just a renewal of an IDF troll campaign. The warmongering Zionists get their trolls to beat the “antisemitism” gong whenever they are starting to look bad in the press.
If you want to be pedantic about what NATO was called when the same members were just the allied forces then idk if we can talk about this in good faith.
… Jesus fucking Christ.
Israel was not ‘given land’ by ‘the allied forces’.
It seems like most of the “antisemitism” that appeared out of nowhere in the last couple months is just a renewal of an IDF troll campaign.
It was the allies who gave the land to the Zionists.
The Haavara Agreement … enabled Jews fleeing persecution under the new Nazi regime to transfer some portion of their assets to British Mandatory Palestine.[2] Emigrants sold their assets in Germany to pay for essential goods (manufactured in Germany) to be shipped to Mandatory Palestine.[3][4] The agreement was controversial and was criticised by Revisionist Zionist leader Ze’ev Jabotinsky and by some non-Zionist Jews, as well as by members of both the Nazi Party and the German public.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
We can see the landgrab was even unpopular with non-Zionist jews at the time.
Dude you gotta chill. Palestinians are being erased, and Jews are not. It’s really as simple as that.
Supporting Zionists does not help Jews. And pretending any antisemitism happening against Zionists is as bad as the erasure of the Palestinian people is intentionally ignoring the ongoing atrocities to clutch pearls.
Zionists and Isralis don’t get sympathy from me while committing the worst war crime possible.
It was the allies who gave the land to the Zionists.
Emigrants sold their assets in Germany to pay for essential goods (manufactured in Germany) to be shipped to Mandatory Palestine.
Are you… did you not read what you literally fucking quoted? Not only is that not ‘the allies’, but rather independent Zionist orgs making a deal with Nazi Germany, but it’s not giving land, and it’s not post-WW2 like you claimed.
Dude you gotta chill. Palestinians are being erased, and Jews are not. It’s really as simple as that.
Oh, okay, since Palestinians are being genocided right now, we can call for a little genocide of Israelis, as a treat.
Supporting Zionists does not help Jews. And pretending any antisemitism happening against Zionists is as bad as the erasure of the Palestinian people is intentionally ignoring the ongoing atrocities to clutch pearls.
“Please don’t advocate for genocide or antisemitism”
“Oh, so you think the current situation for ZIONISTS is just as bad as the ongoing Palestinian genocide???”
…
Zionists and Isralis don’t get sympathy from me while committing the worst war crime possible.
Yes, it’s increasingly apparent that you’re quite willing to tolerate calls for genocide as long as the ‘other side’ committed genocide first.
Should European-Americans all “just relocate” since we occupied North America from the Native Americans?
Otherwise I don’t see how you’re any different than the Israelites.
Well one happened in living memory and people are still living in the houses of displaced people in Palestine.
This isn’t just about land. This about homes, farms, legacies, birthright, inheritances that have been stolen by living people from living people. Not a vague concept of belonging.
Well one happened in living memory
Then we just wait another 30 years and it’s okay.
Settler-colonialism in the continental US didn’t end until 1953. Israel was founded in 1948.
people are still living in the houses of displaced people
Millions of people were displaced in Europe and other places of the world during the 1940s, who never got to go back and claim their lost property. 900,000 Jews had to leave Middle Eastern countries in the 1940s and 50s and often lost their property over the course of that.
Congratz you’re starting to learn how it’s problematic to deport people who were born in the reigon.
Congratz you’re starting to learn how it’s problematic to deport people who were born in the reigon.
Luckily, it’s not problematic or worthy of condemnation to deport people who were born in the region if their government commits genocide first. The Israeli Jews have to learn that collective punishment is Good, Actually, as long as it’s in response to previous crimes.
I don’t think we need to deport the Isralis, but they ARE genociding their neighbors so maybe they can’t live peacefully in the reigon.
IMO the Palestinian families that lived there before WW2 have more of a claim to the land. That’s if they can’t stop killing each other.
I hold equal disdain for all Abrahamic Religions.
They are a plague.
Why limit your disdain to abrahamic religions?
How many wars do you hear the Zoroastrians committing?
Pastafarians too.
And weirdly enough Jehovah’s witnesses.Why have disdain for someone wanting to believe in a story? Lots of people do lots of worse lies to themselves.
How many wars do you hear the Zoroastrians committing?
Tbh I never heard of them at all.
Pastafarians too.
I feel like that’s more of a political group cosplaying as a religion for legal reasons and social commentary.
And weirdly enough Jehovah’s witnesses.
They are litterally christians.
Why have disdain for someone wanting to believe in a story? Lots of people do lots of worse lies to themselves.
I don’t have disdain for that. My problem with organized religion is that it gives an easy in for maipulators. And naturally defining an arbitrary dividion into an ‘in-group’ and non-believers leading to conflicts.
And (what the main point of my original comment was) this is not limited to abrahamic religions:
Once a fringe Indian ideology, Hindu nationalism is now mainstream (La times)
decades earlier, while Mahatma Gandhi preached Hindu-Muslim unity, the RSS advocated for transforming India — by force, if necessary — into a Hindu nation. (A former RSS worker would fire three bullets into Gandhi’s chest in 1948, killing him months after India gained independence.)
How Buddhist Nationalism Defines Myanmar’s Politics (The Yale review of international studies)
But one view that hardliners and pro-democracy monks share is that they consider Rohingya Muslims ‘outsiders’ and want them sent to detention centers and deported
I remember some kid in elementary school once said to me “I’m not racist because I hate all races equally!”
He thought he was super clever to come up with that.
Being well is not a type of disease
Ok… And? The meme is talking about antisemitism not anti-religiosity
This is brain dead thinking that ignores attorcities committed by both secular and atheistic regimes such as:
Stalin and USSR Maoist China Colonial states (France as one example)
And it’s all bad. But I was raised in the Evangelical Church. I read the bibble cover to cover 4 times before I was 15. Was on track to become a preacher. It was the hypocrisy of the church and the people in it that made me into the merrily militant atheist I am today.
Go argue 20th century geopolitical body counts with some poli-sci major. We’re shitting on organized religion right now.
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There you go again, connecting Israelis to mean all jews.
Nuance and subtlety? Not on my lemmy!
While it is a lunatic statement, it isn’t antisemitic. It’s only antisemitic if it applies to jewish Palestinians that have a connection to the land. The jewish Israelis of European descent aren’t connected to the land. Thus, this isn’t antisemitic. But I do agree that it is a lunatic statement anyway.
EDIT: What I’m trying to say is that this is a nationalist stance not an antisemitic one. Those expecting all Israelis to leave like that aren’t doing so because they’re jews but because they’re settlers. This is however, if you lack the reading comprehension, a position I haven’t even claimed to support, but on the contrary, I even condemned it. What I am doing here is pointing out that not everything that relates to Israel has to boil down to antisemitism. That’s a braindead position
While it is a lunatic statement, it isn’t antisemitic. It’s only antisemitic if it applies to jewish Palestinians that have a connection to the land. The jewish Israelis of European descent aren’t connected to the land. Thus, this isn’t antisemitic. But I do agree that it is a lunatic statement anyway.
Oh my fucking God, when did leftism become Blut und Boden nationalism?
Pretty sure it’s the zios who are all about the blut and boden, even though they’re foreign colonizers.
And it would seem many are content to imitate the Zionists in parroting that Nazi shite. Congratulations on being manipulated by literal fucking Zionists.
Just because I’m calling out the stupid claim that this is antisemitism it doesn’t mean I’m supporting nationalism. It’s just a stupid stance to scream antisemitism at everything especially when this is a purely nationalist issue, which again, I don’t agree with. Those screaming that all Israelis should leave are doing so not because they’re jews but because they’re settlers lol
Just because I’m calling out the stupid claim that this is antisemitism it doesn’t mean I’m supporting nationalism. It’s just a stupid stance to scream antisemitism at everything especially when this is a purely nationalist issue, which again, I don’t agree with. Those screaming that all Israelis should leave are doing so not because they’re jews but because they’re settlers lol
The jewish Israelis of European descent aren’t connected to the land.
This you?
Yeah. They’re settlers. That’s what I was pointing out. This has nothing to do with antisemitism. And there’s a discussion to be had about settlers, repaying their debt to the people they’ve wronged and colonized over decades, and so on and so forth. I come from jewish descent myself. I have no connection to Palestine. Jewish Israelis from Europe are settlers, despite their claims of having a connection to the land, in contrast to jewish Israelis originally from Palestine. This is the difference I’m trying to point out. This doesn’t mean that I support the mass expulsion of any people. But again, this is a nationalist issue not “antisemitism”. Not that nationalism is okay anyway. Just stop watering down the meaning of antisemitism just because it doesn’t fit into Israel’s whims.
The idea of an innate ‘connection to the land’ wherein those whose ancestors are from the ‘wrong’ place don’t have that sacred blood-and-soil connection is literally exactly what I’m talking about and what you’re openly fucking defending here as an attack, specifically, against Jewish Israelis, and even more specifically, against Jewish Israelis of European descent.
“I’m only putting forward insane blood-and-soil nationalist arguments because they’re Jews of the wrong race! It’s not antisemitic or racist!”
You have fun with your Nazi shite. We’re done here.
So you’re free to go colonize any part of the world because if the locals complain about it then they’re nazis. LMAO
Remember kids, if your ancestors came from the wrong place, it’s okay if people want to deport you to it. You don’t have the sacred blood that connects you to the land, unlike True
AryansLocals! Ethnic cleansing is okay if it’s against Bad Ethnicity™!That you use the exact same arguments as Zionist genocidaires and fail to see the irony is sadly unsurprising.
I live in North America, and I have European descent, and I have a connection to the land. I can trace my family back 13 generations in North America. But even if I could not, being born somewhere gives you a connection to the land. Unless you’re Trump, I daresay this is a widely-agreed-on perspective. I don’t think anyone should have to be kicked out of the place they were born.
And yet that’s not what I argued at all. Maybe read that again. Of course it’s insane to kick people out from the place they were born in. I just said that this has nothing to do with antisemitism but just pure nationalism. They’re not asking them to leave because they’re jewish but because they’re settler. But again, this entire discussion is stupid anyway, since it’s insane to expect people to leave in mass the place they were born in.
Okay, I see what you’re saying about how it’s not specifically anti-semitism, it’s anti-colonialism. What I consider to be anti-semitic though is the idea that someone is a colonist solely by the virtue of being born Jewish in Israel. (Please note that I’m not claiming something outrageous like no Jew born in Israel is a colonist, or even that the proponderance of colonialist ideology is rare in Israel.)
How do you feel about german babies born in poland during ww2? Or YTs holding all the land in south africa?
And maybe you should look at your own privileged life from a similar angle.
I look at my own privileged life from many angles. If I don’t belong here, then where do I belong? Some other country I’ve never been to, am not a citizen of, and who hates immigrants? Everyone belongs somewhere.
Well, unless you’re Donald Trump, and want to end birthright citizenship.
Regarding youtubes in South Africa holding all the land – as a leftist I don’t really believe in strong private property rights. The land should be liberated. That doesn’t mean I think they should be kicked out, or that some other country should take them. Well, unless you’re Donald Trump, and want to invite “south african refugees” into your country.
So glad the literal antisemites came out on this post to play apologist for ethnically cleansing Israeli Jews ‘back where they came from’ in Europe for the crime of being born in Israel. I’m trying to think of how this differs from the Nazis wanting to deport Jews to Israel, but I’m coming up with a blank.
I guess there must be something substantially different, though, because obviously these brave anti-imperialists would never be antisemites. Even when they advocate for literal fucking genocide based on the very compelling and principled argument of “Israel committed genocide first!” /s
Typical Israeli apologist, dreaming of a hypothetical genocide of Israeli Jews when there’s an actual genocide being committed by the zionists. Do you ever get tired of being a victim?
Sorry that you think genocide is okay so long as it’s Good Genocide, unlike the Bad Genocide Israel is currently committing.
Some of us think genocide is bad, just on principle. Yes, really.
There you go again, making shit up in your head. Makes me think that you might not actually believe those words and just want to distract from the daily murder of innocent Palestinian people by reframing the poor poor Israelis that are suffering on stolen land. What a joke.
I love that ethnic cleansing is being defended in this very thread and your claim is that I’m making up these responses. Like, do you not own a pair of eyes? Or is it just too much fun playing mirror Hasbara?
All of the people I’ve seen advocating that are talking about the people who were not born in Israel.
Is it really ethnic cleansing when the ethno-state they built continues to genocide their neighbors with the approval of the vast majority of its citizens?
By that logic that birth in Israel gives the right to stay there, this would in turn mean that this birth revokes the right to compensation for the ancestors that were murdered in the Holocaust or survived it and chose not to go back to Germany.
You cant have it both.
