You won’t ever get me to care about what init system I run on my machine. I just need it to work.
Exactly. There are more important holy wars and bigger hills to die on.
Sounds like something an Emacs user would say
Those two things are related.
The first thing forcing an option does, is depriving that option the ability to know what it could achieve on pure merit.
When I was starting to use Linux in the late 2010s, I was quite confused by how all the init stuff worked. Now that I use NixOS and systemd, I’m things have become really easy. I could write a simple backup system by chaining a few services together without problems.
Might it be, that you have also learned a bit here and there?
One thing the author probably hasn’t done yet or just doesn’t mention is that you can configure
.containerservices with systemd-podman units (often called quadlets), e.g. a simple MariaDB container would look like this:[Unit] Description=MariaDB container [Container] Image=docker.io/mariadb:latest Environment=MYSQL_ROOT_PASSWORD=rootpassword Environment=MYSQL_USER=testuser Environment=MYSQL_PASSWORD=testpassword Environment=MYSQL_DATABASE=testdb [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.targetThis is superb, because it means your containers finally feel well-integrated with the rest of the OS and you can use systemctl, journalctl, etc. just like you would with other services.
Personally, I use this as an alternative to Podman/Docker compose and have been very happy with it running rootless containers from Nextcloud, Pufferpanel, Forgejo, Authentik, etc. (ask me for .container files if you need any help, I’m currently working on a small repo with a collection)
awesome!
Excuse me, peasant crontab enjoyer here, but what?! I could write a (mostly) declarative system without having to learn Nix?! I should probably be learning systemd anyway, it’s looking more and more like the present, let alone the future.
I run a bunch of remote reverse proxies that are functionally identical, but for having a different Cloudflare key and calling for a different static IP
Could I write the entire config to a self hosted Git > pull that repo > change those two variables and have a running machine?
Remote updates have been kicking my ass, I either can’t wrap my head around Screen or it isn’t fit for my need. Being able to pull the new config from Git over Tailscale and then run it would be game changing for me.
If you need a half step on your journey, convert your crontab to systemd timers first.
In fact, I do need a half step. Legend, thank you.
Most compiled output of NixOS configuration (besides packages, perhaps) is just systemd units anyway. I found out quickly when learning nix that my lack of systemd prowess was going to cap how well I could understand NixOS.
That idea feels very useful but I also distrust it and it makes me angry for reasons I can’t articulate.
Your distrust is kind of reasonable: I’ve been using this a lot for the past year and there definitely were two or three moments where it was a bit annoying, too little transparent on what commands will be run, etc.
Do the reasons include gate keeping?
That’s neat! There’s so many advanced features of systemd I swear I learn something new every time it comes up.
This is due to systems generators allowing Podman to plug in to that system
TIL. That’s pretty useful!
It’s amazing, the gitea container supports this. Autostarts on machine restart, etc.
Yeah, it’s great that Gitea/Forgejo has a copy-paste snippet in the docs, but you can actually use that with pretty much every container.
There is this useful tool to convert containers, podman commands or even compose files to podman-systemd units: https://github.com/containers/podlet
I like this, but even though pod man runs perfect rootless, quadlets can only run as root for now :-(
Not true. I run them rootless on my server as we speak. :)
How do you do that? Please link a description. This has been a major stumbling block for me
Are you placing your service files in
~/.config/containers/systemdof the home dir of the user you want them to run as?Here is a link: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-run-podman-containers-under-systemd-with-quadlet
Yeah, that works, but it means the services cannot be managed by systemctl as root anymore. Or am I missing something?
You can if you want to. But I don’t think that is best practice. The idea of quadlets is the bring Linux norms to containers. You contain and manage all permissions for that container in that user.
I personally have completely separated users and selinux mls contexts for each container group (formerly docker compose file) and I manage them thusly. It’s more annoying but it substantially more secure.
This being said I think you can do it as root. I think this might work but I am not certain
sudo systemctl --user -M theuser@ status myunit.service
Same here; Rootless Podman Quadlets gang unite (there is two of us in total)
Make that 3!
Just place your Quadlets in the $HOME/.config/containers/systemd/ directory for this ;)
The reference I linked to earlier also contains more information on rootless.
While that is true, that is not how I would run services normally with SystemD. Those would be defined globally, but run as a user.
Definitiv then in the user home, means that I dint see them with
systemctlwhich is very annoying.Yes, you’d have to do
systemctl --user
I agree. For a init system.
I don’t like the “takeover” of network and home folders. (It feels like a takeover for me)
The comments in here are going to be normal
Upstart was perfect!
Unix grey beard here.
Yes. Distros with systemd are simply easier to maintain.
Even when DNS resolution isn’t working properly?
Especially then. Great documentation and support tooling make troubleshooting much easier.
Can you give me a link to that documenation and tooling? Because every time I go to troubleshoot an issue, I end up in a tangled mess of trying to figure out how systemd and NetworkManager have decided to configure themselves on this particular system, and I give up.
I don’t know how it happens, but I can set up Ubuntu on a dozen laptops in exactly the same way, and a week later they all have different configurations.
Can you give me a link to that documenation and tooling?
Linux daemons and utilities typically come with manuals that get installed alongside the software. There’s a command line tool, aptly called
man, that can be used to search and display these manuals. So for instance,man resolvectldisplays the manual for the command line utility that you can use to control, configure, monitor and debug thesystemd-resolveddaemon. (Although I usually look up the man page online because it’s more convenient to scroll through than in a terminal.) Man pages for a given daemon will typically mention near the bottom related man pages for e.g. control utilities likeresolvectl, so it’s not necessary to remember it by heart.a week later they all have different configurations.
I’m trying to remember any situation where one of the systemd components would change its configuration on its own, but I’m coming up blank. It may be my memory failing me, but possibly that’s the wrong tree to bark up?
Arch wiki ftw
Never had a systemd caused DNS issue.
Then I must be using it wrong. I kept systemd-resolved on my laptop but on my desktop I use plain old
/etc/resolv.conf
[disputed]
Introducing: Being a contrarian asshat!
Yes, by being a contrarian asshat you too can legitimately claim that any statement is disputed, because You dispute it!
No one cares about systemd at this point
If you want to use your computer like it is 2005 go for it. Just don’t keep bringing up this dead topic.
Where did all the Pöttering hate go?
Difficult to argue with someone who is obviously right when they’ve actually proven they were right.
Systemd is fine but I am kinda sad that it’s ubiquity has resulted in increasing dependence on it.
I really like void linux which uses runit and it seems like its getting harder for things to work without systemd. Gnome made some changes fairly recently that increase dependence, I hope devs can build ways for gnome to still work :/
My only real criticism is that using runit makes me feel like systemd could be a lot smaller and more elegant. But using systemd has never caused me any problems as best I’m aware 🤷♂️
