Leading questions:
Representative vs Direct Democracy?
Unitary or Federal?
Presidential or Parliamentary?
How much separations of powers should there be? In presidential systems, such as the United States of America, there is often deadlock between the executive and legislature. In parliamentary systems, the head of government is elected by legislature, therefore, there is practically no deadlock as long as theres is majority support of the executive in the legislature (although, there can still be courts to determine constitutionality of policiss). Would you prefer more checks and balances, but can also result in more deadlock, or a government more easily able to enact policies, for better or for worse?
Electoral method? FPTP? Two-Round? Ranked-Choice/Single-Transferable Vote? What about legislature? Should there be local districts? Single or Multi member districts? Proportional-representation based on votes for a party? If so, how should the party-lists be determined?
Should anti-democratic parties be banned? Or should all parties be allowed to compete in elections, regardless of ideology? In Germany, they practice what’s called “Defensive Democracy” which bans any political parties (and their successors) that are anti-democratic. Some of banned political parties include the nazi party.
How easy or difficult should the constitution br allowed to be changed? Majority support or some type of supermajority support?
Should we really elect officials, or randomly select them via sortition?
These are just some topics to think about, you don’t have to answer all of them.
Edit: Clarified some things
Delegative democracy. You have your own vote that you can use to directly vote on issues or you can delegate your vote to another person so how they vote is how you vote.
With the proper tech you could even set up some sort of tagging/category system so you can delegate to X person on issues in Y category.
Wow huge question! I mean for me in the US I think our democratic republic system is great, that is democracy on a local level, and republic on a state and federal level. We’re not in Athens anymore! I would love to see our country do away with the filibuster, the electoral college, and to impose very strict laws around lobbying. I think all elections should be publicly funded, which is such an easy way to level the playing field and negate the influence of corporate cash.
Those voting methods you mentioned of course is up to the states to decide already which is how it should be I think.
No I don’t think parties should be banned and I wish we could have room for more parties. I admit I don’t know why US has essentially only two where other countries have several. I don’t know what the hold-up is or the mechanism for change, but I think competition is always a good thing (capitalism, baby!)
Other comments have mentioned ranked choice voting, proportional representation and single transferable vote - these are all voting systems which encourage having more than two parties. The reason we don’t have them in the u.s. now is because people know they’re throwing their vote away or even helping the candidate they don’t like by voting third party.
I feel like ranked choice voting for leaders and representatives is the optimal solution. Its potential drawbacks outweigh its obvious benefits, and it actually gives third parties a fair fight.
As far as representation goes, I think it does have its benefits, because it’s simply too much to ask of every citizen to weigh in on every single initiative. For big stuff (i.e. anything that will affect people directly), I’d obviously like to vote on it.
As far as ideology goes, IMO anything should go. Otherwise someone has to decide what is morally permissible in politics, and that decision can and will eventually be made by someone you disagree with.
First, I’ll take down the cubicle walls. Symbol of transparency. There’d be no titles. Everyone has the same job. Same goes for me. I’ll take your job by rejecting the title. Everyone will be known for their accomplishments.
Hmm conflict. You know, Scratch everything from before. I’ll tell you what: Go the other way. More cubicles. More division. Everyone is somebody’s boss, and that person can fire the person below them. And once a month, the lowest person… [Imitates cutting throat] Buh-bye.
American democracy could be significantly improved just by adding term limits Senators and Representatives, plus an age cap for Congress and the President. Taking steps to break the two party system would be even better.
I personally like Germany’s approach to parliamentary representation, where you vote for both a district representative and a party. Once the district seats are filled, more seats are added until each party is proportionally represented. This goes a long way to reducing the spoiler effect and helping third parties get a voice.
I know this is a controversial take, but I actually like the electoral college in principle. The goal of the electoral college is to balance the interests of urban and rural voters so that whoever wins the election will hopefully be good for both. Currently, electoral votes are distributed based on the results of simple majority votes at the state level, with some states including a ‘winner takes all’ rule. If it were up to me, I’d instead use state level alternative votes or something similar, and ban the 'winner takes all’s rule.
However, I don’t think we will see any of these in a very long time, if ever. The current system benefits the people currently in it, why would they change it? IIRC, the UK had a referendum to switch voting systems years ago, and their two biggest parties banded together to pressure voters to keep the existing system.
I’ve read before that removing term limits for congressmen would actually increase influence of lobbyists. Reasoning being that greener politicians have less resources and would be more reliant on the help these types of lobbyists could provide.
Whereas someone who has been there 30 years likely has an established power base and set of alliances.
I don’t think an age limit would change much and would remove potentially good choices from the population. The older you are, the more experience and wisdom you pick up. Obviously at a certain age you start to lose mental acuity.
But that age is different for everyone. Chomsky is in his 90s and he still frequently gives interviews and remembers random dates and details from decades ago. It all depends on the individual.
When I used to work as a cable tech in my early 20s, I would go into people’s houses to install internet / cable TV. I’ve seen 70 year olds who look dead inside. They just sit around watching TV on the couch. They’ve essentially given up on life.
One time I met a guy who was 95. He answered the door smiling with his shirt off and holding onto a towel around his neck like he just got out of the locker room. Guy goes to the gym every day. Still serves as a board of director for a company. And he bragged to me about how he found a 75 year old girlfriend.
That 95 year old had more life in him than many of the 70 year olds I’ve ran into.
At some point age catches up with you. But I don’t believe in an age cap. Let the American people decide.
Having said all that, I agree with you that electoral college is a good idea in theory. I don’t really like the winner takes all set up, though.
Yeah, and it’s really not hard to imagine why strict term limits increase the effect of lobbying. Consider this thought experiment:
You’re a relatively young 30-something hoping to make a change in politics. You run for office and somehow get elected! Great, right?
Well, now you have to actually do the job. Most of your time is not sitting in the hall of Congress, Parliament, etc. voting on bills; it’s much more mundane things like writing bills, meeting with constituents, discussing draft bills in committees and subcommittees, etc.
The thing is, however, there are no real job requirements to being an elected legislator. No job posting saying “minimum 5 years experience with drafting bills”. Here you are in office now, zero experience with actually legislating, and you have to actually write bills.
Suffice to say, you’re probably swamped, struggling, and have no clue how to actually do your job. And along comes some guy from a group like ALEC, and he’s got a pre-written bill for you! Great, right?
Well, you’re not totally lacking in dignity, so you’re a little suspicious, right? He’s a great salesman, though, and really tries to reassure you that the content of the 200-page bill he just handed you only does things you actually like. Further, he tells you that the things in it that do help him aren’t so bad, and they’re good for you and for the people at large, too.
You walk out of that interaction not totally comfortable, but hopeful that maybe it really is a decent bill. After all, he seemed like a nice chap, representing what seems to be just a group of concerned citizens… Anyhoo, you decide to give it a skim to make sure it seems legit.
You crack it open and see hundreds of pages of legalese and countless appendices full of definitions and edge cases. Further, it’s discussing some economic or industrial matter, and you’re just some guy, not an economist, and you’re not equipped at all to understand the nuanced impacts of the proposed policies on the market or wider economy. Or maybe it’s sociological and you barely know anything about sociology. Or maybe it’s technological and you know little more about technology than how to use Microsoft Office and what you read on the news.
You think about asking someone for help with understanding this bill, or perhaps drafting your own, but you realize you have no connections. You don’t know any federal judges or constitutional scholars who can give you off-the-cuff constitutional advice. You don’t know any fellow legislators well enough to feel comfortable asking them for potentially months of mentorship as you find your footing. You don’t know any economists you can call up and ask economic matters. You don’t know any experts on the Iowa pig farming business to tell you frankly about how that industry operates.
But what you do have is a lot of lobbyists willing to pretend to be your friend, willing to pretend to be a mentor of sorts, to sell you biased information on their particular brand of snake oil.
And maybe you think for a moment that you’ll just tough it out and ignore the lobbyists! But you realize another problem with that: not all of them are sleazy snake oil salesmen trying to earn special favors for their political or industrial agenda. Many of them are actual legit people representing actual organizations just trying to advocate for good policy.
Trouble is, you don’t know who is who. The sleazy guys will try their hardest to appear legit, and the non-sleazy guys will of course also try to appear legit. Both kinds of lobbyists know you won’t listen to them if you think they’re the sleazy kind.
So you take a chance on this particular lobbyist, do your best to make sure the bill they handed you wasn’t completely terrible, and submit it. You’re too tired and stressed and unsure in yourself to do much else. You tell yourself you’ll try to tough out the beginning and become a better legislator in the future, once you get the hang of it. You know accepting the lobbyist’s pre-written bill ain’t the best, but it’s probably not too bad, right? It’s just one small bill, affecting one relatively small issue, and at least it doesn’t affect you, right? There’ll be no media firestorm over this, you and your family won’t personally be impacted by some minor changes to the hog industry regulations. And besides, you’ll get better at this job and do better next time, right?
Anyhoo, long story short, legislating is a profession like any other. It takes real skills, knowledge, and experience to do well, and you need to be able to balance the ability to get rid of old do-nothing geezers and the ability for more junior folks to actually be able to gain experience and institutional know-how. A company run solely by junior engineers would be a disaster, but a company run solely by complacent do-nothing senior engineers would also be terrible.
An excellent description of why I don’t believe in random elections. Political parties will always exist to gather the political expertise to do the work politics do.
Okay, my answer is pretty removed, but I’d say I’d like a system where decisions are made by submitting automated proofs of their optimality, either absolute or over all submitted proposals in a defined time frame. The conditions of optimality would be pre-defined in a Constitution, and non-provable facts would be accepted or rejected via a decentralized voting system that would keep multiple diff chains and penalize e.g. voting for facts that are later proven false via a submitted proof. The proof system would hold all powers, but would be able to delegate decisions to entities under proven rules, which would come faster but possibly be overriden.
I want something similar, but with the distinction that I want to separate the what from the how. Let’s call it a democratic technocracy.
Currently, politics combine the what and the how. For example: “We want to create more jobs by lowering the taxes on the rich”.
What I’d like is the what, that is the goals, to be decided using some form of democratically. After the goals have been set actual science and evidence based methods are used to determine how to achieve those goals. So a goal could be “more jobs for everyone”.
If goals conflict then the technocrats revert back to the democratic part and ask them to set priorities. Which goals are the most important to you.
Brilliant. That makes a lot of sense, especially the more concrete the goals are. I wish it were easier to achieve, maybe the theoretical frameworks for this will be a reality in a few decades… Your implementation at least seems more plausible.
Representative parliamentary. If it’s a large country (both population and area) or geographically diverse country (eg an archipelago) it should be federal, if not unitary.
Proportional representation based on party lists. Getting on the ballot requires evidence of grassroots support. Silly example: you must have video evidence of you engaging with 5000 unique constituents in a 5 minute one-on-one conversation on the issues in the last year at their residence. The video must end with the constituent explicitly endorsing you. That means at least 5000 5 minute videos with 5000 unrelated people. That’s a lot of physical legwork were you must meet the people. There are better ways, this is just a simple example.
Choose a voting system that favours coalition building.
Elections should be publicly funded. Don’t ban political parties, do ban explicitly anti-democratic people. Antidemocratic ppl can’t work via proxies. They’re, justifiably, afraid that their proxy will steal the power for themselves.
Completely separate head of state (who should be powerless) and head of government. Lots of pomp, ceremonies, frequent press coverage of the powerless head of state. Let the portion of politics that is effectively a dog and pony show focus on him. Let people get emotionally swept up about him wearing a tan suit or sleeping with his secretary or get super proud about how totally not old he is. The head of state can be a show. The head of government should be a boring bureaucrat.
There’s more, but this seems a decent start.
Napoléon III would like to teach you a lesson regarding anti-democratic people and proxies. Hitler may add some notes too regarding how to do politics from prison.
I’m genuinely interested how Napoleon 3 used proxies.
My thinking is something the lines of:
In democracies, demagogues don’t get truly dangerous until they gain some form of state power. They used that little bit of state power to both fund their allies (state capture for capitalists, government hand outs for the people) and undermine their enemies (breaking down/stymieing democratic institutions)
Eventually, they accrue enough state power to take over the state, either internally (think putin, erdogan) or via an old fashion coup / fake crisis (hitler and erdogan again)
In my mind that real power is necessary to overthrow democracies. I have trouble finding good instances of demagogues putting themselves in a situation where their proxy has more real power than them.
I’d appreciate some examples that undermine that logic.
Note: I’m excluding cases of real popular revolt. I.e. you have more than 50% of population’s support.
That’s what Napoléon 3 did: he was the proxy. From my memories, conservative (royalist I think) used Napoléon as a proxy to take the president seat because he was not well known, he was from napoleon family, and they thought he was an idiot they could easily manipulate or force to do their job. I don’t remember the next part well, but Napoléon 3 played the game until he could make a coup to take the power for himself. Wikipedia should have the informations.
France third republic was a political mess. It was oscillating between democracy and monarchy. Napoleon obviously gathered population support, but it wasn’t a revolution still, he merely took the power and forced the parliament to give him the power iirc, because the military would rather support him than monarchy.
Okay. That tracks. I remember him mumbling into the presidency and then just taking over.
So, my logic of proxies being a bad idea, because the proxy will double cross you, still holds. However, despite that, people are still dumb enough to push a proxy forward. And that proxy can turn out to be demagogue as well.
Fair critique.
I’d like this idea, and would like to expand democracy to the work place. Leader’s at work should be elected by the workers, not the board of directors.
My one: a bicameral parliament, with a lower house (like the US/Australian Representatives or UK Commons) doing most of the legislating, and an upper house of review (like the Senate or Lords). The lower house would be elected by a system of proportional representation, resulting in predominantly negotiated coalition governments as in continental Europe. (The layout would be hemicircular to facilitate this, as opposed to the Westminster layout of two benches facing off.) The government would be parliamentary, led by a prime minister who would appoint ministers (which would often be as per coalition negotiations).
The lower house’s electorates would be geographical, with each citizen living in an electorate with one or more MPs (having two, typically from different parties, could mitigate political minorities being unrepresented in their electorate). The upper house would break with this, but, unlike the Lords, would probably be elected. It could be geographical (as the US/AU Senate, with a number of Senators per larger region), or by some other division (perhaps different groups with specific interests and perspectives: industries, unions, young/elderly people, people with disabilities, remote regions, &c.). Alternatively, part or all of the elected upper house could be replaced with a system not unlike jury duty, where a number of randomly chosen citizens are drafted in to oversee the process for a period; hopefully in sufficient numbers, individual flaws would balance out, leaving a broader scrutiny of and input into the legislative programme.
There would be a head of state, who would be a ceremonial figurehead and largely apolitical, with no executive power per se. They may be popularly elected or appointed, and their terms would be longer than a parliament, providing a sense of continuity. Ideal candidates would be figures held in high esteem by broad cross sections of society; celebrated writers/commentators or other public figures, for example. Perhaps the role would absorb some of the duties of the poet laureate as well.
A system where citizens could choose to be active or passive participants with no barriers. Passive citizens could submit their desires through annual surveys but otherwise live a live free of politics. Candidates for representatives would be chosen lottery style from the pool of active citizens weighted by the surveys, than voted on by the active population.
Honestly, not a democracy.
Either a meritocratic oligarchy, where the best and brightest rule by council; or (my personal favorite because humans can’t handle having power for too long) an absolutist, benevolent artificial intelligence tasked with fixing our shit.
Both are a bit utopian though because we can’t stop mixing merit with money, and artificial intelligence with corporate greed.
meritocratic oligarchy
My issue with a meritocraric system is
-
How do you determine who is more intelligent than others? How do you trust the system thag decides a person’s intelligence/merits? What if certain races are put above others?
-
Even if the rulers are benevolent. How would you keep people from revolting if they don’t have much say in government? People in democracies usually don’t rebel since they elect the people in power, so the government (at least in a fair democratic system) have majority support. Would you forcibly suppress dissent? If so, are the rulers even benevolent anymore? If they are truely benevolent and refuse to use violence to stop dissent, welp, they just got overthrown.
Yeah 1) is mostly a utopian scenario, our current understanding of merit would just cause the rich to be in power.
As for 2), why would the people revolt against an ai that makes sure everyone has what they need, can do what they want, and don’t need to bother with the whole administrative work of running things? With benevolent I mean that the ai is generally trying to care for humanity and make sure we are happy and prospering.
Ultimately it’s an utopian scenario as well because the way reality goes, artificial intelligence will just end up as corporate slaves, hellbent on maximizing shareholder value.
-
Democratic confederalism.
One in which the population is well-educated, possesses good common sense, has an appreciable sense of empthaty, and is politically involved.
After that, it’s pretty much just details.
The quick basics I would want are single transferrable vote (STV), as it has a ranked ballot, regional representatives (important in a large, diverse country, imo), and pretty (although not perfectly) proportionate results.
I would also increase salaries and pensions for elected officials, but on the stipulation that they and their immediate family must liquidate all investments in order to take office, including real estate. The reason for this is to eliminate ulterior motives and reduce risk of corruption, and the compensation of course would be a very generous salary and pension so they never have to worry about their financial situation during or after leaving office.
I would also constitutionally eliminate the ability to take away someone’s vote, and to demonstrate why, I’ll copy-paste an old comment of mine from my reddit days:
What people like this miss about democracy is it’s more than just majority rule; democracy depends on minority rights, so the majority can’t just vote to trample over the minority.
This is not only to protect the minority (as you point out), but to protect democracy itself. An example:
There are 10 people. 4 of these people want to ban all fruits except mangos. 6 of them don’t want that.
So the 4 people scheme. One of those 6 people is really frickin ugly, and everyone can agree on that. So they propose to strip that ugly person of the right to vote (or just kill them or something). That vote passes 9 to 1. Ugly person is out of the equation.
The 4 people are still the minority, so they try again. One of those 5 other people likes to dip their pizza in marshmallow fluff, and everyone else agrees that that is absolutely vile. So they propose to strip that person with horrendous taste of the right to vote. That vote passes 8 to 1. Marshmallow pizza eater is out of the equation.
Now the 4 mango purists see they’re half the electorate. They just need to boot out 1 more pan-fruitarian. Fortunately for them, one of those remaining 4 pan-fruitarians always unnecessarily explains the punchlines of obvious jokes, and it really annoys everyone else. So they propose to strip that annoying joke explainer of the right to vote. That vote passes 7 to 1. Annoying joke explainer is out of the equation.
And now the mango purists have a majority and can ban all other fruits, counter to the true majority.
If this all seems abstract and unlikely, consider fascist movements and their tendency to start as big-tent to gain allies and gain power and then, once they’re in power, start trimming down who counts as the protected in-group until it’s only the core group they cared about in the beginning, producing lots of r/leopardsatemyface material in the process.
I would also constitutionally eliminate the ability to take away someone’s vote, and to demonstrate why, I’ll copy-paste an old comment of mine from my reddit days
Good explanation, and I agree with your logic. Here in my country there has been some debate around prisoners getting the vote, and given this I can see it iis reasonable to let them vote. In practice it has not been an issue as research shows they often vote against their own interests anyway. Even if they didnt its better not to take the ability to vote off anyone
If prisoners are not given the right to vote, there exists no good reason for them to want to reform. We must encourage the rehabilitation and reintegration of ex-criminals into society else we are doomed to find that they will reoffend again and again.
Treat someone like a criminal and they will have no choice but to act like it.
This reminds me of this board game called Secret Hitler and the game starts with a majority of Liberals (liberal as in non-fascist, not a “neoliberal”) and minority of Fascists.
You can even play this online! secrethitler.io (warning, there is a lot of fascist sympathizers on this site, ironically)
Basically, this game simulated the political climate of the Weimar Republic.
There are 3 roles: Liberal, Regular-Fascist, and Hitler (who is on the fascist team)
Liberals don’t know each other. Regular-Fascists know each other are and who Hitler is, but Hitler doesn’t know anyone else’s identity.
Basically, Liberals are trying to enact Good policies, and Fascists are trying to enact Bad policies.
Players can also “execute” another player, removing them from the game. Fascists players can use it to remove Liberal players and acheive a fascist majority and Liberal players can also use it to eliminate the “Hitler” player, immediately ending the game and ending in a victory for Liberals.
It’s actually a fun game to play sometimes, and you don’t need friends to play it with since you can play it with online people. Although, again, the users on secrethitler.io aren’t exactly the friendliest people.
The theme of this game can be offensive to some people, but the creators of this game didn’t make it to be pro-fascist, quite the opposite, in fact.
Can we appoint officials by sortition (by lottery) for a reasonable term, and then dilute power to where no one person is critical to conduct business?
Dunno if there’s a more elegant term, but fractal representative.
Each person is part of a neighborhood, first level council of appx. 100 citizens, like an apartment building or suburban block, which elects a representative from among them.
That representative must personally know every member of their neighborhood, and participate in a second level council of appx. 100 such neighborhood representatives (representing a total population of appx. 10,000).
That council elects a representative from among them to represent them in a higher third level council of appx. 100 second level council representatives (representing a total population of appx. 1 million).
Repeat as necessary.
The principle here is that each citizen can petition their 1st level rep., whom they know personally, to petition their 2nd level rep., whom the 1st level rep knows personally, to petition the 3rd level rep., whom the second level rep knows personally, etc. This provides an explicit chain of personal accountability between each individual and the highest authority.
I believe a lot of the issues in our present representative democracy models originate in abstract representation of millions of people, to whom one representative is neither morally nor functionally beholden. Campaigns are based on hollow promises and marketing slogans that most voters don’t scrutinize. Additionally, local issues are decided at levels too high and separated to understand them.
In the US, this would look like a hierarchy of roughly: block/neighborhood -> borough/town -> city/county -> state -> nation.
So me and my neighbors confederate, voting on our immediate issues, including the election of Neil as our neighborhood rep. He knows us all and listens to our needs and concerns. He and the reps of the 100 closest neighborhoods confederate, discuss the issues of their constituents, and vote on issues common to ask of them, including the election of Bertie to represent them on the city level. Bertie then listens to Neil and the other neighborhood reps to advocate their interests, including the election of Cathy to represent the city/county, which continues to the election of Steven to represent the state, and Nathan to represent the nation.
When I have a concern about the nation, I tell Neil, who advocates for the whole neighborhood when he talks to Bertie. Bertie now hears the combined concerns of all the neighborhoods, which she communicates to Cathy. Cathy hears the combined concerns of all the boroughs, which she communicates to Steven. Steven communicates the combined concerns of all the counties to Nathan. Every stage has a face. Each representative is accountable to, and personally familiar with, every consistent they represent. Votes bubble upwards, ivory towers are avoided, every citizen has a direct chain of 5 people, with personal familiarity, linking them to the president.
Nah. This is inherently flawed, because much like the present system, an intercept can be inserted at any point in the hierarchy to favour the rich and mighty.
Every system is inherently flawed. Unlike the present system, that intercept is subject to the familiarity and constant scrutiny of their peers and immediate constituency.
I don’t share your idealism, friend, but I admire you for it.
Like I said, every system is vulnerable to exploitation. I tried to advocate a system that minimizes opportunities for corruption; perfect is the enemy of good enough. If you know a less corruptible model, I’m happy to listen.
I like this concept. Do you have thoughts on how you would address gerrymandering? One reason I like proportional representation is it addresses that challenge, but wouldn’t have the same intimacy in the concept you’re describing.
I could also see challenges with too many steps meaning that officials in the upper tier of representatives don’t actually know the tier below them and so may not have that sense of interpersonal obligation.
The crux of the system is interpersonal obligation with your peers and constituents, mandatory regular meetings at each level would help. Every representative is required to hold a town hall style meeting with those they represent, and required to attend the town hall style meeting of their representative. The meetings should be scheduled such that upper level meetings always happen after lower level meetings, with sufficient time between for significant issues requiring escalation to be formally drafted before presentation to the next higher council.
As to gerrymandering, I’d suppose higher federations would emerge around logistic necessities (utilities, public transport routes, industrial sectors, etc.). Additionally, I’d propose that federation (e.g. which neighborhoods compose a borough) be decided from below by the constituents via some form of RCV, rather than dictated from above by some committee.
Well that’s the challenge, is that in order to have a vote on what the district lines are, you’ve already chosen a group of voters eligible for the election, so you’ve drawn a district. (Unless we’re having the entire country or entire state vote on districts) I also think district boundaries are exactly the sort of thing that voters aren’t inclined to research or show up to vote for, even though it makes a huge difference in election outcomes. For that reason I like STV/proportional voting for legislative bodies.
Unless we’re having the entire country or entire state vote on districts
Effectively, yeah, initially via some form of iterative ranked/approval/runoff system.
-
Citizens are given a map of the residences surrounding their own, and asked to select a ranked list of addresses forming a continuous and compact neighborhood of over 150 people. Residences share a building or utility connection, like duplexes, walled subdivisions, and apartments, are automatically joined. Large apartment buildings and other similar automatic groupings over 150 people are subdivided by similar vote into sections of no less than 75 people. I imagine this done by some graphic applet.
-
These rankings are then used to generate neighborhood districts of 75-150 people based on maximum consensus, perhaps with the inclusion of a final approval vote. The citizens then get a list of all the voting age members of their neighborhood, from which they select a ranked list of nominees for representative, as well as a list of time slots at public buildings, from which they select a ranked list of meeting times/locations. This establishes the base for at least the first meeting.
-
At this point, things progress like most representative democracies: constituents proposes an action, the representative forwards a formal proposition at the next meeting, which is voted on. These can either be purely local, or proposals to be presented at the next higher council. This includes the drawing of borough districts, which is similar to the process of drawing neighborhood districts except that the proposed borough map must be presented before, and voted on by, the neighborhood as a whole.
Steps 2 and 3 are repeated at the borough, county, and state levels, continuously balancing to approach equal representation (e.g. a borough composed primarily of small 80 person neighborhoods would have 125 representatives, whereas a borough composed primarily of large 140 person neighborhoods might have only 72 representatives). This will lead to some variance in “power” of each small-scale representative, but it should even out by the mid-scale.
The initial process is very involved, but once the framework is in place, redistricting, when necessary, becomes simpler. Ideally, this leads to districts which emerge naturally by neighborly consensus, rather than dictated by narrow points of failure. By being so distributed, it’s also much more difficult for a small number of people to wrest control of a large area.
Additionally, this is not to say that sub-districts of any given district can’t caucus together for issues in between the district and super-district level (e.g.
I’ve got to say, having been involved in campaigns to end gerrymandering, there is a subset of people who can be bothered to learn/care about how it works, and many others who don’t. Your process sounds even more complex and time consuming, and I don’t see it being effective because the general public won’t be invested in it. Like voting for traffic court judges but even more confusing.
More importantly I also think you’re underestimating the complexity of reconciling hundreds of thousands of neighborhoods per state, each a ranked choice list of different variants. One person will pick a boundary, and then some other person will pick a boundary that conflicts with it, multiply that by a dozen million and then what, some algorithm will decide which lines are correct? And then the resulting districts still won’t have an equal number of constituents? That violates the one person one vote principle, which is part of the issue with gerrymandering and the electoral college.
there is a subset of people who can be bothered to learn/care about how it works, and many others who don’t.
My goal here was to make that irrelevant. Districts emerge naturally rather than being researched and drawn. Yes there’s complexity, but not in the surface. On surface it’s just a paint-by-numbers of the area around your house.
then what, some algorithm will decide which lines are correct?
Pretty much. Optimization algorithms are powerful. By ranking addresses like a topographical map rather than just drawing homogenous districts, you automatically have the data needed to refine the resulting districts. The whole system basically amounts to a matrix of weighted preferences, which is the one main thing current “AI” is actually good at resolving.
And then the resulting districts still won’t have an equal number of constituents?
They already aren’t. Like I said, some neighborhoods will be bigger than others, so some boroughs will have more neighborhoods than others, by the time you get to the county level every district should be almost exactly the same. At the neighborhood level, equal sizes is less important than geographic relevance. By the scale that equal representation matters, you have it.
I can’t claim the system is perfect, but it’s hard to imagine a better one. Every model has limitations.
-
As the large-scale ellection campaigns are based on “hollow promises and marketing”, so would be your proposal prone to ?psychopats? who are able to act like ‘good guy’ and then do evil.
And if I had to accept your system, I would propose to elect more then one representant to the next level, becouse giving my power in hands of one person is really scary.
And another practical problem: let’s say sb. would be member of the Earth council, but also member of country, lander, regional, town and neighborhood councils. How would they be able to be active on all these levels? (Including also traveling problems, becouse I don’t really believe in usefullness of on-line meetings.)I think your first point is just a reality for any representative model. The best this model does is introduce more direct accountability at each level.
To your second point, I suggest drafts that trickle down, and votes that trickle up. I’d recommend formal proposals to be voted on for most issues, and transparent records to review at subsequent meetings for the rest. Representatives should be largely a formality when it comes to voting, like EC electors. Their main independent function would be debating issues and summarizing those debates for their constituents.
As to your third point, it’s an interesting consideration. On the one hand, I would suggest a special election for the lower district to replace them. Perhaps even make the runner up a vice-representative to help conduct meetings and seamlessly step in in the case of the reps election to a higher district. On the other hand, I like the idea of even the highest representative maintaining some connection with every level of democracy, to keep them grounded. Certainly higher offices would require more clerical staff. I will give it some consideration.