Build out the infrastructure for fascism fucked up
Genocide supporting fucked up
Refusing to fight against MAGA fucked up
Taking money from the poor and working class, and giving it to the rich fucked up
Bragging about how many people they deported fucked up
Not giving people fair immigration trials fucked up
Some of us think that those things are kind of a big deal. Are Democrats better than Trump? Sure. Is a Neo-lib better than Trump? Sure, but that doesn’t mean that I’m going to vote for a party that openly fights against the things I believe in, like:
The system sucks but you’re never getting any of the things you want from it without the Democratic party. Leftists should be taking over the party instead of abandoning it. Or letting themselves get played into abandoning it by those who want to disempower the left. The system guarantees that we get two parties and we’re not going to take the GOP so the Dems are really it. It sucks but it is what is, you can’t wield the state without first wielding one of the two parties. There is no other realistic path to power under the system.
We’re not going to get the things that we want from the Democratic party. They’ve been overwhelmingly clear that they would rather keep losing elections than give us any of those things. Why would I keep investing in a party that openly and strongly tells me “No, go fuck yourself. We’re gonna keep bombing children” ?
If you want to try and fix the Democrats, then go get em tiger. I have no problems with others trying to fix it from the inside. But I’m not wasting my time with them.
Sure, but that doesn’t mean that I’m going to vote for a party that openly fights against the things I believe in
Thanks, the lives of marginalized folk thank you from inside Alligator Auschwitz. I’m so glad you just couldn’t bring yourself to vote against the literal Nazis.
But the next Democratic president isn’t going to close that place. Likely they will expand it. That’s what happened with the last Democratic president.
Oh, were you planning on electing Republicans again and backing NIMBY politicians and then being surprised when they act like Republicans and NIMBYs, like when Obama made repeated efforts to close Gitmo?
I’m sure the kids that the US bombed are super grateful that you were so eager to chose genocide over winning an election. I’m so glad you just couldn’t bring yourself to vote against literal child-killers
I’m sure the kids that the US bombed are super grateful that you were so eager to chose genocide over winning an election. I’m so glad you just couldn’t bring yourself to vote against literal child-killers
Don’t worry, I’m sure you know what’s best for Palestinians far more than… [checks notes] Palestinians
Really it reads similar to the disaffected anti-establishment arguments that some folks in the US put forward to defend their support of Trump - with the difference that Palestinians 1) do not vote in US elections and 2) have really good fucking reasons to cling to hope in any kind of change at all.
Not that Trump ever offered that in any way that would help people, but I cannot blame them for grasping at straws. Most seem aware of the fact that US imperialism is inevitable either way.
Ah yes, Truly Enlightened Voters like you realize that Trump having performed Zionist bootlicking above and beyond what even the Republicans, the more Zionist of the two pro-Zionist parties in our society, were willing to do in his last term and promising an even greater expansion of support to the murderous apartheid state, is actually No Difference At All with the Dem candidate backing away from unconditional Zionism.
God, I’m so glad these Both Sides Bad takes are so prevelent here, it would be really awful if it was all cope to avoid the fact that you helped literal Nazis win who have been helping the Nazis in Israel to a far greater degree than the other Zionists.
You don’t vote for everything at once. You vote on what’s on the ballot. Palestine wasn’t on the ballot. Concentration camps, fascism, economic meltdown, removal of the social safety, women’s rights, and the rule of law were.
You decided that you were okay with all that bullshit because of something else unrelated. And look - Israel is acting worse than ever now because Trump doesn’t even pretend to be against genocide.
You chose this, and you should lose sleep over it.
Yes, those would have been better if Kamala had won.
Economic meltdown, removal of the social safety, rule of law
I’m not convinced those would have been fixed if she would have won, as they were not fixed by any of her Democratic predecessors. The same predecessors that she made every indication she would follow.
Minimum wage isn’t the only part of the economy. Raising the minimum wage would help, but lowering the cost of living (rent/mortgage/etc) would be better. Look at the econ data to see how the dems worked to try and stop the economy from becoming more unstable whjen they were in power. Republicans have historically done a much worse job at this, with the dems coming in to clean up their mess. Not saying either party is good, but the pattern is straightforward.
No, not even close. Did housing prices get better under them? Healthcare costs? Education costs? How are workers wages doing compared to corporate profits?
Unfortunately I think it’s more a matter of not getting worse faster. Downward trajectory hard to change within the time period they had. We did get the ACA under Obama, even though the Republicans gutted it. Better than what it was. Still bad. But they’re not the party making it as bad, comparatively.
No, I was not OK with all of that bullshit, which is why I voted against it. If you are going to disagree with me, that’s fine. But I’ll start taking you seriously when you stop making up stuff about me.
You just called out people for not voting against the Dems in the comment I was replying to.
It’s easier to keep your talking points consistent when you aren’t a troll who has to keep track of which lies they’re telling in which conversation threads.
Well, I called out people who proudly voted for genocide and bombing children. I wanted the Democrats to fight against “Concentration camps, fascism, economic meltdown, removal of the social safety…” and fight for “…women’s rights, and the rule of law…”, but they weren’t. The Democrats were doing the opposite.
Democratic reps have been arrested for speaking out against raids or inspecting ICE facilities. They are far from perfect, but they’re way, way better than you’re saying.
But the reality is, they’re powerless because people like you have discouraged people from voting for them. What can they do? They’ve been nearly universally unanimously against the GOP in votes this year, but they are a minority. They support legal challenges to the administration, but the Supreme Court is fucked.
Short of taking up arms, there’s not a lot they can do until we get people to vote them into power.
The same Democratic party that voted for more funding for ICE when they were in control of the system? The same Democrats that promised they would be tougher than Trump on the border during the last election?
They are only against ICE now because the Republicans are in control, and they have to pretend to care. When they had power, they seemed to think that supporting these systems was perfectly fine.
I’ll stop discouraging people from voting for them, whey they stop perpetuating the Evil Empire.
You’re going to have to answer this for yourself, but here’s some hints to help you:
Has the genocide gone away since you decided to vote for garbage by throwing your vote in the trash?
Has the guy you didn’t vote against helped further any of your causes?
Has the guy you didn’t vote against stopped sending weapons, or has he doubled the fuck down on killing as many people as fast as possible with zero checks and balances on the people using those weapons?
Ask yourself these questions, and then ask how the world would be if everyone had decided to shove their theory up their ass and go vote?
Has the genocide gone away since you decided to vote for garbage by throwing your vote in the trash?
No, I’m pretty sure that I never said that it would.
Has the guy you didn’t vote against helped further any of your causes?
Has the guy you didn’t vote against stopped sending weapons, or has he doubled the fuck down on killing as many people as fast as possible with zero checks and balances on the people using those weapons?
Same answer for both: I did vote against him. Your questions are based on a false premise. Also, I never thought he would help futher my causes, or that he would stop sending weapons and killing people. I’m not sure where you got the impression that I thought that he would.
Ask yourself these questions, and then ask how the world would be if everyone had decided to shove their theory up their ass and go vote?
I have no idea how that would be different. I don’t know that we have any evidence that things would have turned out differently if everyone voted. If you have any, I’d be willing to review it.
If the Democrat Party continues the way it has, they will look exactly like the current Republican party in the next decade. Republicans will be full puritanical. Supporters of the DNC will still be supporting the lesser evil. The only solution is for intelligent voters to take the stick of fear out of their asses and go full support for better candidates in primaries or other parties. The people who continue to run our two party system will not give up their power.
If the Democrat Party continues the way it has, they will look exactly like the current Republican party in the next decade.
This is exactly the same blinkered view that was peddled in 2000, and in 2010, by useful idiots for the Republican Party. Do you not know how far the Dems have fucking come in the past 30 years, both socially and economically?
Maybe listening to people who think worsening the genocide in Gaza is Left Praxis™ because it hurts Shitlibs like AOC and Bernie aren’t a good resource for American politics?
The only thing I can think of that improved socially is federal recognition of same sex marriage, but that was actually set in motion by state level judicial rulings. I can’t think of any economic improvements.
I think you mean fighting unions, and failing to deliver on the less-than-bare-minimum that he set out to forgive on student debt. It wasn’t sabatoged, it was because he was too busy boming innocent people, backing a genocide, and writing checks to his rich friends to get things done for the voters.
Just one of the things they say they’ll do for popularity but their ‘big’ donors don’t support, so they compromise or fail heartlessly. Sabotage would require opposition. The two parties have been playing the extortion game far too long.
You absolute dumbass, he used the method the law said he could, then Republican judges interfered because it’s Republican policy to not allow Democrats to be perceived as serving anything positive, then Biden used 20 different new methods to forgive all kinds of subvariants of loans
Biden helped the union get their demands. Remember that unions don’t exist to strike, they exist to protect the interests of their members - and they got what they wanted and thanked Biden for it
If the Democrat Party continues the way it has, they will look exactly like the current Republican party in the next decade.
If they see that the majority of the voting population is voting for Republicans, it make sense that Democrats will adopt more Republican-leaning policies. They don’t care about serial non voters. They care about swing voters and their voting base.
It’s magical thinking to assume otherwise. People who don’t want either party are too lazy to organize even a protest vote write-in name.
And how has that been working out? The Democrats keep losing because they keep abandoning their voting base, while trying to pull in Republican voters. Republican voters aren’t generally going to start voting for Democrats, but there’s a giant pile of leftist waiting for a party that actually fights for them. Maybe the Democrats should try appealing to them instead.
They do. Check out Mamdani, who had record-breaking voters turn out. Remember FDR? They voted so hard for him, that Congress had to set up term-limits. It turns out that this “Leftists don’t vote meme” is bullshit. Leftists just don’t want to vote for Right-Wingers, which is why they never show up for Democrats.
But the Democrats are:
Some of us think that those things are kind of a big deal. Are Democrats better than Trump? Sure. Is a Neo-lib better than Trump? Sure, but that doesn’t mean that I’m going to vote for a party that openly fights against the things I believe in, like:
The system sucks but you’re never getting any of the things you want from it without the Democratic party. Leftists should be taking over the party instead of abandoning it. Or letting themselves get played into abandoning it by those who want to disempower the left. The system guarantees that we get two parties and we’re not going to take the GOP so the Dems are really it. It sucks but it is what is, you can’t wield the state without first wielding one of the two parties. There is no other realistic path to power under the system.
We’re not going to get the things that we want from the Democratic party. They’ve been overwhelmingly clear that they would rather keep losing elections than give us any of those things. Why would I keep investing in a party that openly and strongly tells me “No, go fuck yourself. We’re gonna keep bombing children” ?
If you want to try and fix the Democrats, then go get em tiger. I have no problems with others trying to fix it from the inside. But I’m not wasting my time with them.
Thanks, the lives of marginalized folk thank you from inside Alligator Auschwitz. I’m so glad you just couldn’t bring yourself to vote against the literal Nazis.
But the next Democratic president isn’t going to close that place. Likely they will expand it. That’s what happened with the last Democratic president.
Oh, were you planning on electing Republicans again and backing NIMBY politicians and then being surprised when they act like Republicans and NIMBYs, like when Obama made repeated efforts to close Gitmo?
I’m sure the kids that the US bombed are super grateful that you were so eager to chose genocide over winning an election. I’m so glad you just couldn’t bring yourself to vote against literal child-killers
Don’t worry, I’m sure you know what’s best for Palestinians far more than… [checks notes] Palestinians
Yeah that seems anything but decisive.
Really it reads similar to the disaffected anti-establishment arguments that some folks in the US put forward to defend their support of Trump - with the difference that Palestinians 1) do not vote in US elections and 2) have really good fucking reasons to cling to hope in any kind of change at all.
Not that Trump ever offered that in any way that would help people, but I cannot blame them for grasping at straws. Most seem aware of the fact that US imperialism is inevitable either way.
Ah yes, Truly Enlightened Voters like you realize that Trump having performed Zionist bootlicking above and beyond what even the Republicans, the more Zionist of the two pro-Zionist parties in our society, were willing to do in his last term and promising an even greater expansion of support to the murderous apartheid state, is actually No Difference At All with the Dem candidate backing away from unconditional Zionism.
God, I’m so glad these Both Sides Bad takes are so prevelent here, it would be really awful if it was all cope to avoid the fact that you helped literal Nazis win who have been helping the Nazis in Israel to a far greater degree than the other Zionists.
What the fuck are you talking about.
You don’t vote for everything at once. You vote on what’s on the ballot. Palestine wasn’t on the ballot. Concentration camps, fascism, economic meltdown, removal of the social safety, women’s rights, and the rule of law were.
You decided that you were okay with all that bullshit because of something else unrelated. And look - Israel is acting worse than ever now because Trump doesn’t even pretend to be against genocide.
You chose this, and you should lose sleep over it.
Those were all on the ballot if Kamala had won.
Yes, those would have been better if Kamala had won.
I’m not convinced those would have been fixed if she would have won, as they were not fixed by any of her Democratic predecessors. The same predecessors that she made every indication she would follow.
You don’t think the last few Dem presidents helped move the economy in the right direction?
Did we raise the minimum wage?
Huh no…
Did we give the big banks a tax funded bailout? Yes…
Minimum wage isn’t the only part of the economy. Raising the minimum wage would help, but lowering the cost of living (rent/mortgage/etc) would be better. Look at the econ data to see how the dems worked to try and stop the economy from becoming more unstable whjen they were in power. Republicans have historically done a much worse job at this, with the dems coming in to clean up their mess. Not saying either party is good, but the pattern is straightforward.
No, not even close. Did housing prices get better under them? Healthcare costs? Education costs? How are workers wages doing compared to corporate profits?
Unfortunately I think it’s more a matter of not getting worse faster. Downward trajectory hard to change within the time period they had. We did get the ACA under Obama, even though the Republicans gutted it. Better than what it was. Still bad. But they’re not the party making it as bad, comparatively.
No, I was not OK with all of that bullshit, which is why I voted against it. If you are going to disagree with me, that’s fine. But I’ll start taking you seriously when you stop making up stuff about me.
You just called out people for not voting against the Dems in the comment I was replying to.
It’s easier to keep your talking points consistent when you aren’t a troll who has to keep track of which lies they’re telling in which conversation threads.
Well, I called out people who proudly voted for genocide and bombing children. I wanted the Democrats to fight against “Concentration camps, fascism, economic meltdown, removal of the social safety…” and fight for “…women’s rights, and the rule of law…”, but they weren’t. The Democrats were doing the opposite.
Democratic reps have been arrested for speaking out against raids or inspecting ICE facilities. They are far from perfect, but they’re way, way better than you’re saying.
But the reality is, they’re powerless because people like you have discouraged people from voting for them. What can they do? They’ve been nearly universally unanimously against the GOP in votes this year, but they are a minority. They support legal challenges to the administration, but the Supreme Court is fucked.
Short of taking up arms, there’s not a lot they can do until we get people to vote them into power.
The same Democratic party that voted for more funding for ICE when they were in control of the system? The same Democrats that promised they would be tougher than Trump on the border during the last election?
They are only against ICE now because the Republicans are in control, and they have to pretend to care. When they had power, they seemed to think that supporting these systems was perfectly fine.
I’ll stop discouraging people from voting for them, whey they stop perpetuating the Evil Empire.
They’re still being bombed but now Gaza will have a Trump Tower too thanks to people like you.
Fixed that for you
Confidently incorrect. Bravo.
What is incorrect about that? The party made it very clear that they wanted to keep sending weapons, instead winning the election.
You’re going to have to answer this for yourself, but here’s some hints to help you:
Has the genocide gone away since you decided to vote for garbage by throwing your vote in the trash?
Has the guy you didn’t vote against helped further any of your causes?
Has the guy you didn’t vote against stopped sending weapons, or has he doubled the fuck down on killing as many people as fast as possible with zero checks and balances on the people using those weapons?
Ask yourself these questions, and then ask how the world would be if everyone had decided to shove their theory up their ass and go vote?
No, I’m pretty sure that I never said that it would.
Same answer for both: I did vote against him. Your questions are based on a false premise. Also, I never thought he would help futher my causes, or that he would stop sending weapons and killing people. I’m not sure where you got the impression that I thought that he would.
I have no idea how that would be different. I don’t know that we have any evidence that things would have turned out differently if everyone voted. If you have any, I’d be willing to review it.
If the Democrat Party continues the way it has, they will look exactly like the current Republican party in the next decade. Republicans will be full puritanical. Supporters of the DNC will still be supporting the lesser evil. The only solution is for intelligent voters to take the stick of fear out of their asses and go full support for better candidates in primaries or other parties. The people who continue to run our two party system will not give up their power.
This is exactly the same blinkered view that was peddled in 2000, and in 2010, by useful idiots for the Republican Party. Do you not know how far the Dems have fucking come in the past 30 years, both socially and economically?
Maybe listening to people who think worsening the genocide in Gaza is Left Praxis™ because it hurts Shitlibs like AOC and Bernie aren’t a good resource for American politics?
The only thing I can think of that improved socially is federal recognition of same sex marriage, but that was actually set in motion by state level judicial rulings. I can’t think of any economic improvements.
You mean like supporting unions and forgiving student debt? Or do you not count that because republicans sabotaged it?
I think you mean fighting unions, and failing to deliver on the less-than-bare-minimum that he set out to forgive on student debt. It wasn’t sabatoged, it was because he was too busy boming innocent people, backing a genocide, and writing checks to his rich friends to get things done for the voters.
Which unions did he fight? The ones who thanked him for helping them get their demands through?
Are you ignorant or a republican troll?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_railroad_labor_dispute
The one that made the strike illegal, and forced the contract through because the members didn’t want it.
Just one of the things they say they’ll do for popularity but their ‘big’ donors don’t support, so they compromise or fail heartlessly. Sabotage would require opposition. The two parties have been playing the extortion game far too long.
removed by mod
You absolute dumbass, he used the method the law said he could, then Republican judges interfered because it’s Republican policy to not allow Democrats to be perceived as serving anything positive, then Biden used 20 different new methods to forgive all kinds of subvariants of loans
Biden helped the union get their demands. Remember that unions don’t exist to strike, they exist to protect the interests of their members - and they got what they wanted and thanked Biden for it
I’m pretty sure this person is a Russian troll. All they care about is shitting on Democrats
https://ontheissues.org/Bill_Clinton.htm
https://ontheissues.org/Kamala_Harris.htm
Feel free to compare and contrast.
If they see that the majority of the voting population is voting for Republicans, it make sense that Democrats will adopt more Republican-leaning policies. They don’t care about serial non voters. They care about swing voters and their voting base.
It’s magical thinking to assume otherwise. People who don’t want either party are too lazy to organize even a protest vote write-in name.
And how has that been working out? The Democrats keep losing because they keep abandoning their voting base, while trying to pull in Republican voters. Republican voters aren’t generally going to start voting for Democrats, but there’s a giant pile of leftist waiting for a party that actually fights for them. Maybe the Democrats should try appealing to them instead.
Do those giant piles go to the voting booths, or are they pinky promising to do so when the general election comes around, next time?
They do. Check out Mamdani, who had record-breaking voters turn out. Remember FDR? They voted so hard for him, that Congress had to set up term-limits. It turns out that this “Leftists don’t vote meme” is bullshit. Leftists just don’t want to vote for Right-Wingers, which is why they never show up for Democrats.
People don’t vote, including leftists. Not voting isn’t going to make politicians shift left, either way.
People demonstrably vote, including leftists. I also never said that not voting is going to move politicians to the left.