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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Ask just about anybody, and they’ll tell you that new cars are too expensive. In the wake of tariffs shaking the auto industry and with the Trump administration pledging to kill the federal EV incentive, that situation isn’t looking to get better soon, especially for anyone wanting something battery-powered. Changing that overly spendy status quo is going to take something radical, and it’s hard to get more radical than what Slate Auto has planned.
Meet the Slate Truck, a sub-$20,000 (after federal incentives) electric vehicle that enters production next year. It only seats two yet has a bed big enough to hold a sheet of plywood. It only does 150 miles on a charge, only comes in gray, and the only way to listen to music while driving is if you bring along your phone and a Bluetooth speaker. It is the bare minimum of what a modern car can be, and yet it’s taken three years of development to get to this point.
But this is more than bargain-basement motoring. Slate is presenting its truck as minimalist design with DIY purpose, an attempt to not just go cheap but to create a new category of vehicle with a huge focus on personalization. That design also enables a low-cost approach to manufacturing that has caught the eye of major investors, reportedly including Jeff Bezos. It’s been engineered and will be manufactured in America, but is this extreme simplification too much for American consumers?
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No paint? Sure. No touchscreen? Good.
…No radio? That’s going to absolutely murder their sales.
I think it will depend on if they have lots of USB power conveniently available. Like you could literally make your own stereo with two bluetooth speakers and a phone as long as there’s plenty of USB power and mounting points.
You know what, people can just add their own bluetooth speaker.
I think it’s fine.
If they are targeting work trucks - which is where most bare bones trucks go - the buyers already have a bluetooth radio they use all day.
Many will consider this a cost-cutting step too far, but the interior was designed for ease of upgrading, with easy mounting space for anything from a simple soundbar to a full sound system.
This isn’t for everyone, but if it’s easily accessible, I’d have no problem installing a basic CarPlay head unit and speakers in an afternoon.
Quite possibly. They’re gambling on a market for a no-frills car existing, but it might just be too small. That’s what killed economy cars the first time.
Yeah I mean they should include a standard double-DIN radio with Android Auto. Or at least make it optional. Using a Bluetooth speaker is ridiculous and will sound awful. And the battery will probably explode being it’s kept in a hot vehicle…
a 12v outlet can power a radio just fine
No paint because you’re injection molding body panels? Sounds good.
No stamping? How are you getting away with that? Are they just outsourcing the stamping for frame parts? There’s no way this thing doesn’t require stamped frame components.
Tbh, this feels like vaporware. I’ll believe it when I see them actually being delivered.
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I think the non-stamping is the body panels. They would still have to have a stamped metal frame to meet the S rating wouldn’t they?
They make it sound like not having stamping is helping them by not requiring expensive machines and a factory with a high ceiling. I’m betting they’re outsourcing the stamping. I’m also betting that they won’t ever deliver a truck.
Are truck chassis usually stamped? I had assumed they were made from cast components.
Definitely not cast. Some suspension parts are cast but most car frames are made from stamped sheet metal welded/bonded together.
Frame rails are usually stamped. Although low volume sometimes will brake press them.
Hmm. Well, plastic can have a pretty good strength to weight ratio, if taking up more volume in the process. If sheet metal can do it maybe they went all-plastic.
If they’re including fibres too, that can famously exceed metal’s rigidity depending on how precisely it’s done.
At the cost of the mold to do something like that (and the machine to even run it), I’m reasonably sure that stamped or brake pressed frame rails make more sense cost wise. I’m not sure that volume will ever drive the cost of that low enough to be worth it within the life of a mold like that. Like, I can picture the design to make it a basic two plate mold (I think, I’m more used to parts that top out a bit over a foot in the largest dimension), but then the gate size and shot volume I’m picturing to fill the thing is just bonkers, although apparently there are a few machines in the world that could theoretically do it if I’m reading their specs right from a quick search.
Unless your thinking a carbon fiber layup, which is feasible, but I believe metal becomes more cost effective again at that point.
It sounds like you’d know better than me, haha. Since they’re talking about being capital-lean I’m guessing they must outsource the frame pressing. Having a rare, super-specialty injection molding machine would not be lean.
IIRC they mentioned fibre reinforcement, but it couldn’t possibly be the aerospace-style precision product, exactly because that would cost a lot.
Edit: And I’m guessing cold-setting resin would be too expensive?
They might be doing some sort of glass chop in areas (actually, i wouldnt be surprised if this is what they mean by “composit body panels”, open molds would be cheap as hell, and parts are cheap too), but I used to use that more for body panels or exterior details than anything super structural. I guess they could do fiberglass frame rails, but that still feels like it would be a strange choice at what just doing basic ladder frame in steel would cost.
A basic usable truck sounds good to me, but the price seems high for bare bones and the range seems equally bare bones.
I don’t know how the purchasing power differs across the pond but converting dollarydoos to pounds that sounds like a bargain for a new functional EV
I guess but I saw a used Volt on sale for under $4,000 and this is from a brand I’ve never heard of.
Time will tell if it’s a good price or not I suppose, if it’s a really solid truck then I guess it’s close enough to a fair price.
Volt or Bolt? Volt is a hybrid.
If Bolt, I’m guessing that was a very old one that will get like 50km of range.
Probably the Bolt? I think it was closer to 60 or 70 but yeah, it was definitely an older one.
Personally I think the telco is more compelling. If it wasn’t american i would strongly consider it.
Looks cool but it’s also twice as expensive.
TIL 27.5k x 2 = 41.5k
This thing also has way more range as standard and basic accessories like speakers.
when I looked it was 41k, maybe there’s a chapter trim option?
It’s also 20ish" shorter, seats 5 with a 5 foot bed, can carry 4x8 sheets flat between the wheel wells (and tailgate closed if the midgate is open), tows a bit over 3 tons, has an AWD option, and the base range beats the maxed out range on the Slate. They aren’t really competitors beyond “small truck.” Telo is absolutely maxed out for it’s size, Slate is as cheap as cheap can go.
Love it. No connection to the internet except when you choose to, through your phone. Analog controls. Frickin roll up windows!
My only beef with the current concept is the bolt on body panels and other parts. Too easy to steal. Could replace those bolts with security bolts, if they aren’t already, but that just discourages the casuals.
My only beef with the current concept is the bolt on body panels and other parts. Too easy to steal.
I mean the same could be said about Jeep Bronco. Although these just being plastic means they’re probably not worth stealing…
Jeep Bronco
Missing a comma there…
I laughed haha
Hell yeah. I actually emailed them and they confirmed that there’s no data collection at all. That’s extremely rare for any new car these days.
this strikes me as a fascinating idea–with a couple of eyebrow-raising backers–that is probably going to flop spectacularly because it’s too minimalistic to the point of just being cheapskate
I’d imagine the $20K price is for a model so basic many people won’t want it. it will be interesting to see what the price is for a model most people would consider an acceptable basic car or truck.
There may be a market.
The big 3 have been chasing larger trucks, effectively abandoning this market. I can see this being a farm truck that gets beat to shit.
Why this over a used vehicle?
Is there a used electric truck old enough to be $20,000?
electric vehicles are not a used market yet
Because it’s new? Among other reasons…
They look like excellent fleet trucks.
exactly
And backed by Bezos
That design also enables a low-cost approach to manufacturing that has caught the eye of major investors, reportedly including Jeff Bezos. It’s been engineered and will be manufactured in America, but is this extreme simplification too much for American consumers?
I’m more worried about the cheapness and corner cutting.
I found the specs a bit interesting. 52.7 kWh battery and a curb weight of 3,600 lbs is nearly identical to the Chevy Bolt, but this only has a range of 150 miles instead of 240. Is it really that much less efficient? The only thing I can think of is the aerodynamics, but that’s a 40% difference.
As I understand it, the aerodynamics can be no joke on EVs. The acceleration is very efficient, there’s very efficient regenerative braking, and an object in motion just continues in motion until there’s a force. That means drag is pretty much where your whole battery charge goes. (I’m not sure how much tire flexing accounts for exactly)
For an example off the top of my head, the Arrow concept car manages 500km by not having side mirrors. Compare that to an ICE engine which wastes most of the fuel energy as heat, but to a widely varying degree depending on design and implemented energy recovery features.
This is generally in line with ice, the drivetrain efficiencies anymore are in the high 90%s (applies to ev too), so from engine out you are losing basically everything to drag.
This is one thing I don’t get for the complaints about EV’s: Drag and towing. You have the same losses in ICE, just that the ICE powerplant is so much worse ‘before’ the drive
On ICE vehicles you lose a lot more to braking
depends entirely on the kind of drive.
Yeah, friction losses scale with angular velocity and not torque, and moving a ton of metal takes torque. Don’t forget the braking losses, though, unless it’s a hybrid of some kind. There’s no turning movement back into fuel the way you can turn it back into electricity.
The point is if you’re looking good range, there’s several dials that can be adjusted on an ICE car, related to the prime mover. On an EV, drag is the start and finish of the considerations (unless you’re going to move it onto rails, maybe). And of course range is a huge deal, because a liter of secondary cell can’t come close to the energy density of a liter of petrol and 38 liters of ambient air.
Also, the “(after federal incentives)” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. The basic option for the 2023 Bolt comes out to about $20K after federal incentives, but you get way more range and a bunch of those “luxury” features this is missing. Considering how cheap low-end smart phones are, I have a hard time imagining that infotainment systems actually add more than 1-2% of the cost of the vehicle. Feels more like a type of virtue signal than a real cost-saving measure.
Your vehicle not being yet another surveillance vector can be a selling point.
I mean, I guess, but that’s only a selling point to the small number of people without smartphones, which isn’t a large enough group to make it a sound business strategy.
EV truck vs. car? 40% difference sounds about right, even an aerodynamic truck isn’t much better than an aerodynamic brick
I really like this concept. Definitely catches my attention. But I think minimalists are in the minority these days.
What would you prefer, this for $20k, or a 6 year old truck with 50k miles and all the features for $20k? Most cheap people prefer the latter
What used electric truck costs $20k?
None yet. Electric trucks haven’t been available long enough to reach that price point. It will come.
I don’t disagree about what most people want. Personally, I don’t really care for the features, so I’m an outlier. The one thing I do miss on my 25-year-old Saturn is cruise control.
Plastic panels are awesome, BTW. 25 years and zero door dings.
The problem is you probably could not find a 6 year old truck with 50k miles. Most 2 year old trucks now have close to 100k miles on them.
Would definitely buy one of these. I miss having a truck, but I only need one occasionally for the occasional need to haul something that won’t fit in my car (e.g. Lowe’s trips). I also really dislike the “smartphone on wheels” aspect of pretty much all current EVs.
Plus, I hate the infotainment systems so I would be happy to roll my own.
Though I do wonder if it has a backup camera/screen. Aren’t those required nowadays?
Touchscreens are the worst interface in a vehicle. But yes, Amercian law says all automobiles must have a backup camera installed as of 2018. I need and use a truck but I do just fine with a smaller Tacoma, which these days are basically a full size truck of yester-yore. These look nice, like the UTE style; but the 150 mile range would be an issue for me.
That’s what I thought (re: backup cameras), and someone else mentioned the gauge cluster is a digital screen which switches to the backup camera view). In my case, 150 miles (round trip ) would be just around the upper edge of my use cases, though 15-20 would be more average.
which these days are basically a full size truck of yester-yore
Makes me miss my old 2003 Ranger. It was right where I needed a truck to be, size-wise.
I think there is an option to upgrade the battery to have a 240mi range
According to the articles I read about it, the gauges are a digital screen which changes to the backup camara when in reverse.
Good to know. Will have to read up, though from the little I’ve read, it sounds like this is just a concept for now.
the website for it is pretty comprehensive as far as i can tell
Seems like they have physical concept cars they’ve built based off the Arstechnica article.
USA offering this trash b/c they still can’t compete with BYD.
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Saying they are cutting the EV incentive is just another form of market manipulation.
They want people to panic buy, just like they did with cell phones, just like the stock market. It’s all manipulation.
My two immediate concerns would be whether it comes with AC and is there an AWD option. Both of those could be deal breakers towards the borders. I guess they’re not absolute deal breakers (we bounced around AZ in a '71 Datsun pickup that had about the same specs as this a kid) but they certainly would be huge QOL improvements as options.
It has AC and only RWD.
Ah, cool! Well AC pretty much solves my hesitations here in AZ, lol. But I know a lot of northern states still might want AWD as an option.
EVs (at least well build ones) are far less depending on AWD (and 99% of the people telling me they require one should buy fucking proper winter tires instead)
I live in a country that gets very icy for almost half the year and honestly while AWD is a QoL improvement, it’s nowhere near necessary. Good winter tires do so much more for you and RWD gives you more control than FWD at least.
AWD doesn’t help you brake better unfortunately.
I’m very meh on the AWD as someone in the north. Not needed, but a/c is definitely helpful!
Growing up in Phoenix, the national ads in the '80s that breathlessly noted “comes with air conditioning” was like … how could you sell a car that doesn’t have that?
Yeah, I’m still in AZ, thus my question, haha.
Imagine that, a new truck that isn’t $70k, and an EV no less. I can see it selling well with enthusiasts, businesses, or for fleet sales, but I wonder if the average truck buyer has become too used to giant pavement princesses that die in five years.
The average truck buyer is looking for something that can do everything. Seating for the whole family, comfortable for trips across town or aria the country, able to pull a trailer and carry a load. Enough luxury to enjoy the drive.
This truck is for businesses. Construction or last mile delivery. Enough room for just the people necessary to load or unload it. No comfort features besides the bare minimum. No long range driving.
I expect to see these in fleet yards, not in driveways.
Or someone looking for a run around beater.
I would love this for going to work and back, doing my weekend trash run to the dump, and going to grab stuff to do things around my house.
