I feel like the reason there’s been a resurgance of posts rehashing this has to do with Zohran Mamdani winning a primary in the largest city in the United States. While being openly pro-palestinian AND using the Socialist word positively to boot.
If Harris had won it is highly plausible she would have endorsed Cuomo leading to Zohran’s loss.
Mamdani lends credibility to some of those 3rd party/non-voting/protest voters’ strategy.
I think this causes some… feelings.
Mamdani is not third part though, because he won the primary. So he’s the candidate from one of the two big parties.
And it seems to me like the main reason the dems are unhappy with his win is that even though he won a primary, he is not very likely to win the election given American fear of socialism.
Not really. New York’s mayoral election has ranked choice voting so it’s a different situation. Also, Cuomo is the 3rd party candidate at this stage - he’s running as an independant.
If Cuomo voters snake the election from Mamdani I hope Cuomo has his rapey fingers crushed in a subway.
If Harris had won it is highly plausible she would have endorsed Cuomo leading to Zohran’s loss.
We would also not have immigrants in concentration camps. So you know, it’s a trade off.
The US has been putting migrants in camps since the Obama days. Democrats are just better at pretending they don’t do it
This is simply not true. Detention centers under Obama are a world apart from the concentration camps under Trump. Trump is making camps with Alligator moats. He’s deporting people to countries they don’t come from. He’s sending them to prisons in El Salvador. Did Obama do those things also? No, he did not. Please cut the “both sides” crap because I have zero patience for this bullshit.
This community is still in denial from last year I see, I guess none of you braindeads learned your lesson huh
Even funnier now that the DNC approved candidate is running as a 3rd party in NYC after losing his own primary. Suddenly no issue voting for an independent candidate there.
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Many core issues were addressed, from climate change to women’s rights and LGBTQ+ rights, to concerns over economy (which were improving and have since been downgraded).
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Opponent was objectively worse in Every. Single. Conceivable way. It is after all, a binary choice.
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Uncommitted fucked off entirely on their, absent of any comparative logic.
The biggest thing that comes out of reading threads like this is the erosion of my original belief that I thought the uncommitted were at least smarter and strategic and and more empathetic and more aware of FPTP voting. There is one big reason why Trump won: People were duped by endless amounts of billionaire’s money, seeing Trump at his best and Harris at her worst. I thought folks like you were above that; but alas, you drank the kool-aid just the same.
Edit: For the record, I think massive change in the Democratic party must come. That is not an easy task, but it’s the easiest path.
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this yet again, still seething.
democrat failure is a failure of the democrats. they knew the assignment, they didn’t want to pay the price. they chose this reality instead
Anybody who wants to continue the same old same old is just someone who doesn’t want to TRY something else.
That’s total bullshit. The leftists don’t get a pass for not doing the absolute minimum to stop the fascists from taking power.
it’s almost like multiple people can be wrong for different reasons
Ranked choice voting and money out of politics are much more important than this dualistic psychological warfare. Republicans lose votes to third parties, too. Don’t play their game. Vote blue if you want, but also extend love to your “deplorable” neighbor. Our division is a much stronger force for control than who is signing oligarchical legislation.
“Vote if you feel like it” isn’t going to solve anything. “Vote if you feel like it” got us Trump, and the world and America alike will suffer for it.
Jesus Christ the election is long over
Simply accept that out of two outcomes (leftists uniting to vote Democrat/leftists trying to send Democrats a message by not voting them in) both would lead to terrible consequences. It was a matter of time, it just got expedited to now instead of few years later.
You cannot vote democracy in if there’s no fair democracy in the first place. Elections are over, they won’t save you, unite over what you can do instead of wasting everything you have on infighting.
Organize and protest. Join the political organizations in your area and unionize. This is a harder way, and I know it takes time and energy to figure things out and organize and take part in all the actions made, but it is the only way that works.
Please, if you aren’t already part of your local organizing teams, go search for them right now.
Barely anyone voted for third parties. I have much more blame for the people who didn’t bother voting than the people who voted third party.
I’ll also call out that “not bothering” ignores that a huge sect of the public gets their vote falsely purged, or has their polling location closed, or some other voter suppression tactic.
True, but I also read that the non voters were also about evenly split, it’s not like only the anti trump people stayed home.
He just had the popular advantage, mostly an indictment of the then status quo rather than an endorsement of Trump or indictment of Biden.
It would be saying you are perfectly ok with either candidate over the other. If you say Trump is worse, but the Democrat didn’t earn my vote so I didn’t, that’s pretty aggravating to hear. If you truly felt both options were equally bad, well I can’t imagine that perspective but at least that’s a rational stance for going none of the above with a different vote.
It often sounds like you will only vote for the perfect candidate who agrees fully with you on every thing, which is an impractical ideal.
All this said, the numbers didn’t break in a way for those third party voters to actually have mattered this time around, so despite how frustrated people may be, there’s nothing rational in harping on it for 2024.
Sadly, they both “may” be equally bad. The dems hide it well, trump flaunts it. But they both serve only the elite. Clinton was an epstien friend. And he endorsed cuomo for NY mayor because the party asked him to. They say they want to do things that help the people. But whenever the chance comes, they somehow just can’t do it. We need more parties to at least make it so people can’t just run and win by not being then other guy.
And notice how they mostly just take turns being in charge. Either it is part of thier plan, or it is just proof that neither side actually does enough to be worth voting in repeatedly. Cause they could… but they won’t. I’m from Oregon, so my vote doesn’t matter either way. We always go blue. At least that means we get less election propaganda in the mail and on the phone.
3 options. 2 outcomes.
It would be nice yes
I love how divisive this is without respect to gerrymandering.
Y’all are never making it out of the shit you’re in if this is how you’re thinking. Neither the republicans nor the democrats represent the interests of the working class. You’re just pissed now that the fascism your country has been spreading across the world for decades both under the democrats and under the republicans is coming home to hatch now.
Oh dear sweet Jesus are both sides bad? Oh my god both sides bad, someone call Plato’s ghost, we have a genius here, holy shit never considered both sides bad before
Thats where you stop considering apparently, instead of accepting the grim reality that voting isn’t going to save us as neither party wants to and that we need to do the actual, hard work of forming a new party and demanding more.
Oh this bullshit again
It’s nonstop everyday now. Super annoying. You can tell people who to vote for all you want but at the end of the day it’s their choice. Harping on it after the fact does absolutely nothing but push those people further away.
This is a fucking pointless fight. If you’re still talking about this responsibility shifting nonsense, it doesn’t matter what side of the argument you’re one, you’re a part of the problem.
Y’all are still going to be fighting about this dumb bullshit while ICE handcuffs everyone. Maybe unify so that doesn’t happen.
Telling leftists to stop bickering and infighting over pointless bullshit instead of actively attacking the actual enemies of democracy…
First time?
Imagine being more upset with 3 million leftists than 70 million republicans.
Are any of the 70 million Republicans on lemmy with us right now?
Shut the fuck up Jesus Christ this is so tiresome…
Every fucking day some smug asshole has to come and complain and whine and try and redirect people’s frustration towards infighting instead of against the fascists.
How do you have this much energy to be so smug and so flacid at the same time?
It actually takes very little energy to be disappointed in nonvoters for the fucked world around us.
Every fucking day some smug asshole has to come and complain and whine and try and redirect people’s frustration towards infighting instead of against the fascists.
That’s the point - these people chose to not fight against the fascists last November. Now we’re all paying the price for it. Maybe after four years of Trump you people will finally learn how precious and fragile a thing your enfranchisement actually is.
Careful dipshit. If you get any more dense you might collapse in to a singularity. Though you might be doing the rest of us a favor
I’m getting tired of this back and forth. This bickering is childish and our time would be better spent drumming up positive interest for ranked choice voting.
That’s a huge uphill battle, it’s outright banned in 17 states. Yes, we absolutely should be doing everything within our power to drum up positive interest, but absolute best case scenario it’s going to take several election cycles. We still need to make viable plans for the interim.
If that’s an uphill battle then this useless bickering is a pitch black spelunking
That’s not a bad analogy actually: advocating third parties is like insisting we dive deeper down the cave, while everyone else insists it’s time to go back up. I’m not sure it’s useless bickering, we’re all tied together and the guy in the meme is endangering us all.
I don’t accept that. You clearly know nothing of the social/working movements of the early 1900s. The hallmark progressive achievenments made in this country, many that still exist today (to varying degrees ofc) were a result of literal blood, sweat and tears from third parties.
The Progressive Party led by Roosevelt, The Bull Moose Party with social reformers like Jane Addams and Florence Kelly, the Socialist Party of Eugene Debs… all of these were most prominent in fighting for and ultimately producing a cluster of social welfare, social insurance reforms, women’s suffrage, workers rights/5 day work week, etc.
It was the dedication, pressure and will to not fall in line trying to change the two-party duopoly from within but to build their own movements, their own coalitions on the outside, and thus the mainstream parties were eventually forced to inscribe the populus demands into legislation.
Healthy third parties are a good thing. It builds actual pressure on your legislators. Politicians wont work on your behalf when they know you’re voting for them anyway — they’re lining their pockets with money from the bourgeois they actually legislate for. Seeking the change you wish to see via third party can and has produced monumental value for the working class.
But sure continue spelunking and misplacing your frustrations on your fellow worker instead of holding your desired candidate/party accountable for their bs offering. We’ll keep climbing that hill in the meantime.
Got it, you don’t actually think bickering is useless, you just want the people who disagree with you, even partially, to shut up. Very cool.
You clearly know nothing of the social/working movements of the early 1900s.
Why would that be relevant? That was a century ago. The world is different, people are different, there’s been a century of anti-left propaganda. It’s a fundamentally different situation. You can’t keep trying to use the 19th century playbook on the 21st. Update your models homie.
False. I never suggested bickering as a whole is useless. Sometimes it’s helpful to inform others, like I just did for you. You’re welcome.
And the fact that you willfully dismiss the invaluable lessons of the past, particularly with regards to class struggle, tells me all I need to know — as if a century is a long time ago, I have grandparents still alive born from that time period ha. Neglect history, continue to wander aimlessly.
Lol @ homie. Have a nice day
I’m not bickering, just informing you.
So is everyone you accuse of bickering. We’re informing you. That is the most basic premise of dialectics. Without the discussion of thesis and antithesis, there is no synthesis. When one party “informs” another and expects them to accept the thesis uncritically, that is autocracy.
I never neglected the lessons of the past, but they are most relevant to the conditions that produced them. You are neglecting all the history that happened in between. I spent a lot of time with my great grandmother born in 1915. The world is a very different place. We can’t keep dusting off grandma’s praxis.
You are also neglecting the most basic premise of materialism: align your actions to the actual conditions, not idealism. Continue to neglect materialism for idealism, and you will wander aimlessly.
who banned it 🤔
Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho
That’s an awful lot of southern states. Iowa surprises me because that legalized same sex marriage before a lot of other states
Fancy that, it’s like the post was right.
If it doesn’t happen now, many self-proclaimed ‘leftists’ aren’t interested.
Apparently the 60+ years of groundwork leading up the Russian Revolution just aren’t interesting enough for them.
democrats have a vested interest in preventing ranked choice voting and have already acted to prevent it in areas where it won. So i think fixing the democrats would have to be the first order of business
Agreed, but how do we get it implemented?
If democrat politicians weren’t so shit it wouldn’t be so close in the first place
So true, the Democrats had a fucking easy ass win all lined up and threw it so hard. 1.6B in campaign funds and they ran on, “We are changing nothing, but at least we aren’t republicans.”
Everyone below the upper middle class knows the government is not working for the people. People voted for trump because he ran on change. We know he is a liar and using politically uneducated people to push the right wing agenda, but the primary message of his campaign was what people wanted. And he won.
3rd party/non-voters didn’t help, but the loss is primarily on the Democrats.
we need to be honest with ourselves.
Being angry at republicans for blowing up the government is reasonable.
It’s also reasonable to be angry at the democrats, who sat around watching them work towards blowing up the government for fifty years and being like “hurrdurr FAIRNESS!” while doing nothing to stop it.
I think most of us are pretty angry at Democrats as well.
Yup.
I’m just reacting to all the “it’s the voter’s fault”- not you, really.
Like, No. the democrats haven’t done anything to stop this. Even when they literally campaigned on it.
Don’t blame voters.
I remember having arguments with these Blue MAGA muppets during the election. I kept trying to explain to them why it was insanity to pretend the economy was fine. But they were morons with a 1984 streak that would make Orwell blush, and thought they could just manifest their way to an election victory. They kept citing CPI data, saying, “but inflation adjusted wages have never been higher!” When you pointed out that inflation purposefully leaves out a lot of the volatility in prices people were reeling from, and how not all income groups experience inflation equally? They didn’t want to hear it.
Remember the absolutely insulting, just disgustingly condescending term “vibession?” I do. That term alone probably cost Kamala the election. The only thing that makes people angrier than having to deal with a rotten economy is to have their leaders gaslight them and pretend nothing is wrong.
These morons didn’t want to hear it. They have a three monkeys belief system. Just ignore all problems, pretend everything is fine, and just try to bluff your way to victory on election day. You point out the suicidally stupid policies that were killing the Kamala campaign, and they just acted like three year olds saying, “harumf, I guess you want Trump to win!”
This is exactly what people are referring to when they describe liberal arrogance. Criticism is unacceptable. Shut up and tow the line. Vote Blue No Matter Who (unless there’s a progressive on the ticket.)
Anyone who says blue maga is a fucking moron
If you don’t realize MAGA can be blue, then you are likely blue MAGA. At the heart of MAGA is a rejection of reality, a willingness to embrace magical thinking over objective facts, and a loyalty to the party leaders at all cost. Trying to manifest their way to an election victory, gaslighting the electorate by claiming the economy was fine, and lying through their teeth about Biden’s condition? That is textbook MAGA behavior. Biden’s people might as well have been up there claiming he aced an intelligence exam like Trump’s people are always doing.
Anyone who can’t grok the concept of blue MAGA, or think that the blue team is immune to this intellectual sickness…is a fucking moron.
I realize you want fascism
Found the blue MAGA.
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Proud moron I see
Blue MAGA
🤡
Good thing the republican ones are so much better, them being in power, right?
I cast my vote and played your stupid game. What have you done besides lick blue boot?
You’re right. Republicans are awful. Trump is awful. The Republicans handed the election to Democrats on a silver platter, and the DNC still managed to fuck it up.
The election was drastically skewed to the right due to tiktok and youtube propoganda.thats whT created the entire move,ent to stay home to protest Gaza. Proor to 6 months before the election, I didnt heard Jack ahit about Gaza.
If we’re ever going to fix our elections, we need to do something about influencer astrofurfing. Influencer need regulation and to be held responsible for the ahit they spew.
You want to hand the president even more power? Are you insane?
I had to re-read their comment because this confused me… They said nothing about the president, or handing them more power? It almost reads like you replied to the wrong comment.
Why does this comment have 5 points atm? Who upvotes this?
Wanting the government to regulate free speech is putting that power directly in the hands of the executive branch. that’s why it’s not done… yet
Sure, all the DNC and not, you know, millions of nonvoters and such who decided it didn’t matter.
Sounds like the Democrats absolutely fucked themselves if they made millions of voters decide to sit the election out. They told voters they weren’t going to change anything, so those voters saw no point in voting
“Blue Circus wasn’t entertaining enough, so letting minorities get murdered is aktshually a completely legitimate choice beyond criticism, shitlib!”
That’s how elections work. People see their material conditions degrade and watch the powers that be do nothing, so they vote against those powers or decide that elections are a farce.
“It’s okay to let minorities be murdered if Blue Circus was REALLY unentertaining”
Fuck’s sake, you don’t even both denying it. You have fun with simping for the aestheticization of politics, one of the core components of literal fascism. It goes well with your full-throated support of Nazis taking power.
what about the former statement makes yours occur?
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Vote in primaries, run for office.
You know I’ve had a DNC member admit to me that they intentionally kill primary campaigns, right?
Well some progressives managed to snook in. We need more.
Lose rigged primaries
